Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[well fan for life]

Jettisoning an injury prone midfielder gets a massive shrug from me. Will be interesting to see what mental gymnastics go on to keep Slattery & Shaw sitting on the bench now.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I don't think O'Hara is our best midfielder but he is our best one that Alexander doesn't seem to inexplicably hate, which is what concerns me about him leaving.

['WellDel]

I'm another in the 'not particularly arsed' camp with regards to O'Hara going. He's had his moments but is more often than not just a 5/6 out of ten, bog standard premiership midfielder. 

There's been whispers and rumours of discontent in the ranks for a wee while now, and if there are indeed fall outs with the manager , that is what the board need to be urgently looking at.

Along with the OOC players leaving, I could even see the likes of KVV and Woolery have their agents trying to work their tickets back south. Even though they are Alexander signings and on longer deals, I doubt this anti-football shite is what they signed up for and can see them being just as disillusioned as the rest.

Watt is gone, Lamie and O'Hara will be offski, Roberts will probably leave for a better offer, Amaluzor isn't worth a new deal, Nirrenold will remain a mystery before disappearing unseen in May, and Shaw will return to Celtic. All of a sudden the idea of continuity that the longer contracts and cash investment was supposed to bring is right out the window and yet another complete rebuild on the cards this summer. Just pray they don't give the bearded egotist another crack at it.

Edited March 21, 2022 by 'WellDel

[Kapowzer]

If his wage was on the upper side of our outgoings then I look forward for it being made free for Alexander to go and buy someone decent in the summer, fall out with them by November and bench them from December onwards.

[rowsdower]

Mind when Alexander started, and he was all about passing from the back and taking those short goal kicks, then realized we were too shite for that? He also ditched the two man corners. He's capable of change.

However, I do wonder if he will have an existential crisis in the summer if Jordan Roberts signs for someone else, meaning he can't can't do the two things he's good at, which are signing Jordan Roberts, and benching Jordan Roberts.

[ropy]

It’s all the Scots that are leaving.

[eliphas]

With this talk of unrest, who has re-signed a contract under Alexander? It's more than have left on a free is it not?

McGinley, Mugabi, Maguire, and perhaps could argue Kelly and Roberts too after extending loan stints?

[capt_oats]

49 minutes ago, eliphas said:

With this talk of unrest, who has re-signed a contract under Alexander? It's more than have left on a free is it not?

McGinley, Mugabi, Maguire, and perhaps could argue Kelly and Roberts too after extending loan stints?

Aye. That was my thought last night as well.

If you break down who's actually left:

• Watt - by all accounts on daft money at United and from the sound of things was just generally acting the c**t.
• Lamie - he wasn't exactly loved by the Motherwell support and until Alexander turned up wasn't even playing well. He's also never really been a first name on the team sheet and from what was reported at the AGM Dundee are willing to pay him far more than we were. His best pal has also fucked off to United.
• O'Hara - literally hasn't been available for over half of Alexander's games and was out a fair bit under Robinson as well. We made a push to get him in, paid a nominal fee - it'd be a surprise if we were willing to match whatever wage he's on just now.

Like, don't get me wrong I'm sure Alexander is...difficult and there are probably a bunch of players unhappy but it's also pretty easy for folk to just see what they want to see here.

As you say there have been an equal number of players re-signed.

Edited March 22, 2022 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

Absolutely...it's the nature of football that everything is deemed good or bad by the nature of the current first XI's performances. We're obviously terrible right now but suddenly the youth system is a disaster, the club leadership needs cleared out and there's a rebellion in the squad because - checks notes - the clubs from Dundee have overpaid for two average players and a guy we didn't offer a contract too secured a job somewhere else.

Of course it's always possible the other clubs have clocked where the market is going and have rightly determined these guys remain as good as they can get and as such have to move decisively...but we'll only know that come the end of the summer transfer window.

[Swello]

I've never been convinced with O'Hara - physically, he's got everything it takes to be a good player at our level but literally 2 or 3 games aside (where he's looked really good), he's been utterly mediocre. I'm genuinely sadder that Lamie is leaving as he is a much better player now than we had to endure last season. If he hasn't been offered a deal (or been offered a lower wage), then he's got every right to get himself sorted, so fair play to him.

We've got enough to be down about at the moment without getting bent out of shape because we find out with a few games to go that a squad player is leaving in the summer. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

It would genuinely take a lot for me now to be moved about a player that's not Liam Kelly leaving. 

It's been covered above, but for having paid a nominal fee and had him as a reported high-earner, I'm disappointed with the output we've had from him over the past two seasons. That said, he would get in my starting eleven just now. Take from that what you will.

[capt_oats]

The other thing is a purely numbers issue and that's no shade on O'Hara.

If we want to address the midfield in the summer then something had to give as we already have Maguire (2024), Slattery (2024), Cornelius (2023), Tierney (2025) and Goss (2023) contracted for next season.

Re-sign O'Hara and we're pretty much committing to running with largely the same midfield as we have at the moment.

The other midfielders OOC are Donnelly and nominally Grimshaw with Shaw returning back to Celtic.

Edited March 22, 2022 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

39 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

It would genuinely take a lot for me now to be moved about a player that's not Liam Kelly leaving. 

 

This is very much it for me as well. It's a very, very weird disconnect between the fans & the players. FWIW I do think a lot of the criticism I'm seeing at full time of certain players is bang out of order. For me this entire mess is at Graham Alexander's door to deal with. 

[Swello]

Just now, well fan for life said:

For me this entire mess is at Graham Alexander's door to deal with. 

This is it for me too. I think in terms of a starting 11, we've potentially got a more than decent team but he seems to have totally lost sight of what that is in the midst of the most frequently changed team that I think we've ever had. Once confidence is fucked as it so clearly is at the moment, it's difficult to turn that round and get back to a settled picture. 

I also agree with whoever mentioned it above - when Watt left, we were always going to take a hit as he was a really good player for us - but it wasn't inevitable that we had to get the Random Team Generator out in what now looks like a bit of panic. 

Next season, I'd genuinely prefer a smaller squad where the temptation to f**k around and "keep players happy" (narrator: the players aren't happy) isn't there. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I think the main thing for me is that he just seems to have tied himself into knots/backed himself into a corner trying to play a very specific style of play for reasons that- in March- are still unclear to me.

"Pragmatic" management is often used as a synonym for dour, percentages football but in reality it should just mean utilising the style of play that best suits the players at your disposal. I'm not going to pretend that my tactical knowledge is anything other than rudimentary but when I look at our squad I'm not convinced that's what Alexander is doing.  We have a defence that will happily head balls away all day but is clearly susceptible to being caught in behind,  a collection of ball playing midfielders and more box-to-box types,  about 7 pacey wide forwards and KVV who prefers the ball into his feet.

To me there's no reason why another manager- or even Alexander- couldn't turn this team into a pretty effective and not entirely horrid to watch counter attacking side instead of whatever the f**k the plan is right now.

Edited March 22, 2022 by YassinMoutaouakil

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

This is it for me too. I think in terms of a starting 11, we've potentially got a more than decent team but he seems to have totally lost sight of what that is in the midst of the most frequently changed team that I think we've ever had. Once confidence is fucked as it so clearly is at the moment, it's difficult to turn that round and get back to a settled picture. 

I also agree with whoever mentioned it above - when Watt left, we were always going to take a hit as he was a really good player for us - but it wasn't inevitable that we had to get the Random Team Generator out in what now looks like a bit of panic. 

Next season, I'd genuinely prefer a smaller squad where the temptation to f**k around and "keep players happy" (narrator: the players aren't happy) isn't there. 

Strong agree with all that.

And to back up @YassinMoutaouakil's point about tying himself in knots...

Here are the starting line-ups in the run up to the winter break (after the Rangers 1-6) vs after:

06/11 - (W) Aberdeen (0-2) - Kelly, Mugabi, Ojala, Johansen, McGinley; O'Hara, Goss, Maguire; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt
20/11 - (W) Hearts (2-0) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Lamie, McGinley; Slattery, Maguire, Goss; Woolery, Shields, Watt
27/11 - (L) Dundee (3-0) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Lamie, McGinley; Slattery, Maguire, Grimshaw; Woolery, Shields, Watt
30/11 - (W) Dundee United (1-0) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Lamie, McGinley; Slattery, Maguire () Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt
04/12 - (X) Hibs (1-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Lamie, McGinley; Slattery, Cornelius, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt
12/12 - (L) Celtic (1-0) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Carroll, McGinley; Slattery, Maguire, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt
18/12 - (W) St Johnstone (2-0) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley; Cornelius, Donnelly, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Watt 
26/12 - (W) Livi (2-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley; Donnelly, Maguire, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Shields
-------------------------------Winter Break------------------------------
18/01 - (L) Ross County (3-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley; Donnelly, Maguire, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Roberts
26/01 - (X) Hibs (0-0) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Johansen, Carroll, McGinley; Donnelly (), Maguire, Goss; Roberts, Van Veen, Shields
29/01 - (L) Hearts (2-0) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Johansen, Carroll, McGinley; Shaw, Maguire, Slattery; Roberts, Van Veen, Tierney
01/02 - (X) St Mirren (1-1) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Carroll; O'Donnell, Donnelly, Shaw, McGinley; Slattery, Goss; Van Veen (3421)
06/02 - (L) Celtic (0-4) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley; O'Donnell, Donnelly, Cornelius, Carroll; Slattery, Goss; Van Veen (3421)
09/02 - (L) Dundee United (2-0) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Ojala, McGinley; Slattery, Donnelly, Goss; Efford, Roberts, Woolery
19/02 - (X) Aberdeen (1-1) - Kelly; Mugabi, Johansen, Ojala, Carroll; O'Hara, Donnelly, Goss; Efford, Van Veen, Shields
27/02 - (X) Rangers (2-2) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Mugabi, Lamie, Carroll; Donnelly, Cornelius; Tierney, O'Hara, Woolery; Efford (4231)
02/03 - (L) Ross County (0-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Johansen, Lamie, Carroll; O'Hara, Donnelly, Goss; Shields, Van Veen, Woolery
05/03 - (X) Dundee (1-1) - Kelly; O'Donnell, Johansen, Ojala, Lamie; O'Hara, Donnelly, Goss; Woolery, Van Veen, Efford
19/03 - (L) St Johnstone (2-1) - Kelly; Ojala, Lamie, Johansen; O'Donnell, Cornelius, Donnelly, Carroll; Efford, Van Veen, Shields (343/523)

Genuinely mental - we had a relatively settled starting XI give or take, picking up results and had one issue we needed to address (Watt leaving). So for...reasons we've ripped everything up, we've tried 4 different shapes where before we pretty much stuck with 433. In the league we've started the same midfield b2b twice (Donnelly, Maguire, Goss in the County and Hibs games / O'Hara, Donnelly, Goss in the County and Dundee games) I don't think we've played the same front 3 b2b.

Edited March 22, 2022 by capt_oats

[well fan for life]

28 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

We have a defence that will happily head balls away all day but is clearly susceptible to being caught in behind,  a collection of ball playing midfielders and more box-to-box types,  about 7 pacey wide forwards and KVV who prefers the ball into his feet.  To me there's no reason why another manager- or even Alexander- couldn't turn this team into a pretty effective and not entirely horrid to watch counter attacking side instead of whatever the f**k the plan is right now.

I've had this chat with a few folk now. This isn't a bad squad as such. There's some more than talented players that are good in various positions. But, like you say, Alexander appears to be doing his best to stick square pegs into round holes every Saturday afternoon meaning these players look markedly worse than they are. 

Shame that AGM was before this pish run of form. Would have been good to see him grilled on how watching this Motherwell team makes you want to take up something more enjoyable. Like voluntary root canal treatment or going to Silverburn on a Saturday afternoon. 

[stu92]

16 hours ago, Gianfranco said:

Lasley was also spotted leaving St Mirren’s training ground last week.


I mean he might have just been there to say hello but he was 100% there.

Source? This would genuinely break my heart more than any player leaving.

[well fan for life]

I can handle any number of our jobber players leaving but if he's chased Lasley out the door I will be absolutely gutted. 

[capt_oats]

Just had a check to see what Simo's up to.

Finished 2nd in the Norwegian Veikussliga last year so he seems to be doing alright after getting Tromsø relegated.