Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

52 minutes ago, Richie said:

Yeah, I think Hammell is more a Coach than a Manager tbh.

I actually think it's the other way round tbh.

It feels to me like he has an idea of what he wants but isn't capable of executing it at this level. Again, that shouldn't be a surprise given he's been in a strategic role rather than a first team coaching position.

That's broadly why I've been banging a drum for him to maybe accept he might have limitations and get some experienced support staff on board to do the actual coaching bit.

Like, I have no idea what he's like on the training ground but I'd have thought if there were positives from the coaching side of things we'd have seen some sort of fixes to our (obvious) issues but nah...nothing, nada.

But we've been "prepared" and "doing good work" on the training ground.

Edited February 2, 2023 by capt_oats

[Doctor Manhattan]

8 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

European qualification was a kinda sliding doors moment

8 hours ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

What are we saying so far, then?

I think history has proven that every single bad thing that has ever happened to us has been Ricki Lamie's fault.

 

[ropy]

Sending Shields and Maguire to top end Championship clubs will look like a master stroke next season.

[JamesP_81]

4 minutes ago, ropy said:

Sending Shields and Maguire to top end Championship clubs will look like a master stroke next season.

Aka the advanced scout party ! 

[Ron Aldo]

Speaking of the Malpas season and Brian Kerr, Kerr was one of the biggest wastes of a jersey that season. I'm sure that's of no relevance to our current situation... 

Said it last night and, having slept on it, nothing changes my view that Hammell has to go. Who knows who we would bring in but they couldn't do any worse. 

It's all hypothetical at the moment but I'd honestly take Goodwin. Even if we do go down, he has experience in the Championship and has always struck me as having an idea of who he wants to sign and how he wants to play. 

[Dosser1886]

Usual get some calmer perpective the next morning after the raw emotion of actually being at the game. But still lost as to what we were trying to do last night and where we go from here apart from sacking the coaching staff.

['WellDel]

I'd love to see the list of targets that was drawn up for January signings, and the depths of it we had to plumb before winding up with a 21 year old academy player with zero first team experience as our only actual left back, and a hole like the grand canyon in the middle where a competent centre half and number 6 should be. (along with a bloated pool of forwards with all the potency of an extra mild korma).

I know cash is king and there are literally hundreds of complete jobbers making money way above their skill level in the lowest reaches of the English leagues that we can't come close to matching, but by f**k us and our league as a whole, have fallen off the footballing radar completely. 

We're now seen as some far off wasteland where your career goes to die, whereas time was when we could still attract some genuine quality in the likes of Jutkiewicz, Randolph, Ruddy etc who saw us as a stepping stone to get game time, put themselves in the shop window, and earn a lucrative move back down the road.

No offence to Mandron, Obika et al, but they are simply the latest job lot of journeymen we're rolling the dice on scraping survival for us. I doubt we'll ever see the likes of those guys and genuine quality from the past again. It's a hard sell to them when you're doing well in the upper reaches of the table with the possibility of Europe etc, but almost impossible when you have a rookie manager and are looking favourites for the drop. None of them want that on their C.V. when they can pick up an easy wage 5 x more than we can offer at a mid table outfit down the road with no real expectation of success, but also no real chance of being involved in a dogfight. The saddest part is it's only going to get worse, I don't see how we or the league reverse it.

[Mr Hahn]

7 minutes ago, Dosser1886 said:

Usual get some calmer perpective the next morning after the raw emotion of actually being at the game. But still lost as to what we were trying to do last night and where we go from here apart from sacking the coaching staff.

Yeh, I'm the same. Was trying to refrain from posting last night to sleep on it but that was the worst performance I can remember from a Motherwell team. Admittedly there's some recency bias in there but good grief that was awful.

Have just watched the highlights against my better judgement. The first goal is an absolute disgrace and it isn't the kind of individual errors we've been seeing all season. That's a fundamentally bad goal from a team perspective. Montgomery has a frightening amount of space on the left and time enough to take several touches before anyone gets out to him. His ball, given this space, isn't that good but of course we don't cut it out. Clark then has the time, unchallenged, to take some touches in the box and pick out a runner who, of course, isn't tracked.

The second goal is more of what we've been seeing all season. Centre back (yeh but not really, it's McGinn) loses the ball in a dreadful area, is hopelessly out of position, no-one covers across and it's an easy goal. 

We've fallen so far in the last 12 months and it's going to end in relegation unless we do something more drastic and even then, given the personnel we have, I'm not sure that'll be enough. I try and be optimistic as a fan because defeatism gets you nowhere but realism is starting to kick in. We're not good enough, are poorly set up and don't have any fight or heart which is a recipe for relegation.  

[welldaft]

1 hour ago, fat_tony said:

Yeah I've no idea where people are getting this idea but there's no chance we're going to poach a manager from another club of a similar level.

Similar level in terms of positions in the league last few years. But Motherwell are a step up from Livingston. Albeit a relatively small step. 

I would take Martindale but we don’t have the money to pay Livi. And as it is a small step up I am sure he will hope a bigger club (Hibs etc) will come calling soon.

Now I have had time to sleep on it. I still want Hammell gone. His record in the league this season is a sackable offence. Not only that but as many have mentioned we are now stuck in reverse gear. With every performance we are getting worse.

Who genuinely thinks last night was a blip ? Even some of our better players from earlier in the season are regressing. That is on the Manager. 

None of the new players looked up too much. Early I know. But you would hope even with the short time he has had with them they would look better and give us some impetus or positive impact. Something is badly amiss. I genuinely feel the players have lost respect for Hammell that and they are not listening or both. 

That he (and possibly the Board) has repeatedly failed to sort out our porous (central) defence and soft as shit midfield is utterly negligent.

I suspect he may get this weekends game and maybe even the cup tie. But he should go now. Or failing to get a positive result v Aberdeen then after the weekend. We simply need to try something to stay up. Hammell is clearly not the answer and the Board should know and accept that as soon as possible. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by welldaft

[ropy]

There hasn’t been much comment on the new guys, I have to admit the only words I had was lightweight and donkey.  Maybe someone has a more objective view?

[Ron Aldo]

11 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

I'd love to see the list of targets that was drawn up for January signings, and the depths of it we had to plumb before winding up with a 21 year old academy player with zero first team experience as our only actual left back, and a hole like the grand canyon in the middle where a competent centre half and number 6 should be. (along with a bloated pool of forwards with all the potency of an extra mild korma).

I know cash is king and there are literally hundreds of complete jobbers making money way above their skill level in the lowest reaches of the English leagues that we can't come close to matching, but by f**k us and our league as a whole, have fallen off the footballing radar completely. 

We're now seen as some far off wasteland where your career goes to die, whereas time was when we could still attract some genuine quality in the likes of Jutkiewicz, Randolph, Ruddy etc who saw us as a stepping stone to get game time, put themselves in the shop window, and earn a lucrative move back down the road.

No offence to Mandron, Obika et al, but they are simply the latest job lot of journeymen we're rolling the dice on scraping survival for us. I doubt we'll ever see the likes of those guys and genuine quality from the past again. It's a hard sell to them when you're doing well in the upper reaches of the table with the possibility of Europe etc, but almost impossible when you have a rookie manager and are looking favourites for the drop. None of them want that on their C.V. when they can pick up an easy wage 5 x more than we can offer at a mid table outfit down the road with no real expectation of success, but also no real chance of being involved in a dogfight. The saddest part is it's only going to get worse, I don't see how we or the league reverse it.

It's nothing new they the money in England is insane. I read an article last week which spoke about the highest earning players in League 1 and it beggars belief. There's not a chance we can compete with some of the salaries down there which leaves us scrambling about League 2 or, in Crankshaw's case, loaning players from the Conference. 

It's harder and harder to see where we go which is where I do have some slight sympathy with regards to our recent transfer windows. We live in an age where our best academy players can get picked up before even making our first team. The model of bringing players from the lower leagues in England looks doomed as well as they'll simply earn far more money there even if it does mean a career spent kicking about in League 1.

None of this excuses the fact, however, that some of the most glaring deficiencies in our team were simply left until the last minute. We might be priced out of England but we went to Japan via Australia to find Danzaki and before that we went to Scandinavia to find Sol and Ojala. Surely we could have done the same and found an experienced left back or #6.

[supermarv]

Don’t usually watch back games especially like that but I had to re-watch that first goal and it’s utterly pathetic, like Sunday league stuff. 
 

McGinn especially teamed with crankshaw just half arsed going towards the st Johnstone player no attempt to shut him down, why not go out get close put him under pressure? Basic stuff taught as a full back go and engage, don’t have to dive in but mcginn has given him a good 5-8 yards space and not going closer. Then onto O’Donnell allowing a player to take the ball down in the box do a few keepy ups but not even trying to win the ball or challenge and just allows him space to pull off and play a pass. It’s absolutely criminal but this stuff has been happening all season. Blame lies at the board and coaching staff but you can’t change the board so coaching staff it has to be, love Stevie hammell but they players aren’t playing for him so he’s got to go and if he stays he gets Aberdeen don’t win there it’s game over for him. 
 

Get someone in that can teach these guys to do the basics, be aggressive, work harder than the opposition and simply give 100% for the time you are on the pitch. 

[well fan for life]

I've a lot of time for Stevie Hammell. One of my favourite ever players we have had. But it's time for him to either jump or be pushed. We've been shit for over a year now but I'd argue that was the shittest of the shit last night. 

Treading over old ground here but we have known for months that the midfield is in dire need of some grit, the left back position was going to need Penney replaced and our centre backs are all either not good enough or completely broken. To have gotten to February having addressed the situation by signing a youth player who has played about 5 minutes of senior football in his life is a sackable offence in and of itself. 

Having stuck the highlights on this morning it genuinely has all the hallmarks of a team who have completely chucked it. The defending for both goals would be a riddy at amateur fitba, never mind for a top flight (for now) side. 

['WellDel]

8 minutes ago, supermarv said:

Get someone in that can teach these guys to do the basics, be aggressive, work harder than the opposition and simply give 100% for the time you are on the pitch. 

There are definitely a few who are redeemable and could have this mentality drummed into them. Best of luck with Sean Goss though, the pea hearted p***k.

He couldn't be aggressive if a bear was about to maul his family. He'd maybe chuck a pebble at it, then just surrender himself into it's jaws and accept his gruesome fate. Rapidly turning into one of my least liked players ever, and in nigh on 40 years of watching Motherwell, that's a fairly lengthy and inglorious list to be bottom of. Gutless cuntbag. 

[Yoshi-91]

I am not being dramatic here when I say last night is without a doubt the worst performance I have ever seen from any Motherwell team, and that says a lot. The Malpas, Barraclough, Gannon and Alexander eras don't touch the levels of dross served up last night. No disrespect to St Johnstone but a better team could have put 10 past us. I fear for what Rangers and Celtic will do to us. Stevie Hammell will always a be a club legend but honestly my opinion of him as a guy have lowered somewhat having woke up today and he hasn't resigned. Have some respect for the club, the fans and yourself Stevie. 

The team itself is rotten right through. There is not a single player I would keep at this point. Van Veen is a complete imposter. I spotted it from when he first signed and it annoyed me that most of the fan base couldn't see it. He is lazy, moody, disinterested, can't control a ball and lets be honest, for a striker, he can barely hit the target. He's pretty much is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with that team. 

We are going down, I don't think anything is going to change that at this point but I would at least like to see us go down with a bit of fight about us. I will get blasted for saying it, but I would get Burrows on the phone to Neil Lennon and offer him to the end of the season to see what he can do. Say what you like about him, I certainly do, but he would at least have the balls do what needs done and not mince about. 

[eliphas]

Hahaha. Neil Lennon.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

I'm worried that if the League go back through all our games this season it's going to turn out that there's been a counting mistake and we don't actually have 20 points. Where did they all come from? 

[Swello]

It just hit me; this is what it felt like to be an Accies supporter for those final years where they circled the plughole before plopping down to the Championship. I've got a whole new empathy towards them.

[Desp]

6 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Hahaha. Neil Lennon.

Genuinely shows you how bad we've become at this point where I looked at his name and thought...'could we?'  He'd certainly fire a rocket up a few of their arses.  Also, what a laugh it would be seeing the reactions of some of our more, ahem, loyal fans if he was in charge... 

Not my first choice by a million miles but him or Jim Goodwin would certainly come in with a point to prove.  We're absolutely relegated if we carry on as is.

[Handsome_Devil]

5 minutes ago, Swello said:

It just hit me; this is what it felt like to be an Accies supporter for those final years where they circled the plughole before plopping down to the Championship. I've got a whole new empathy towards them.

I actually find this - being utterly shite and deservedly down by miles - easier to take than bobbing between 8th and 12th for weeks and going down because the music happened to stop a certain way on MD38.