Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[welldaft]

Have said it before. Would like Pep G and Ketts to be asked the same questions and a timer .

Pep would be 2m42s and Ketts 24m20s.

It is his personality. And to be fair he generally talks sense, he just takes quite a bit of time saying it. 

What I don’t get is he often gives away his thinking / tactics / approach to the games. Don’t suppose it is giving too much away but that is the point at which I wish he would button it .

As for tomorrow’s game. Will any of us be surprised to see us concede at least 2 avoidable goals and be chasing the game once again. That 1st goal against on Saturday gets worse and worse every time I see it. We simply don’t seem capable of not doing that in most games these days - bar maybe Parkhead and to be fair Yang and Oriley missed two gilt edge free headers they should have buried. 

Anyways here’s hoping something strange happens and we defend well

[ropy]

We might miss KVV for this one, he was usually good for 2 or 3 goals up there.  

[joewarkfanclub]

I had hoped after the Celtic game we would get back to some sort of consistency of selection / tactical approach. 

However, we were missing Slattery (and Miller obvs) on Saturday and we are going to be missing Paton tonight.

SK certainly hasnt had any luck with injuries and suspensions but his solutions to the problems being placed in front of him never appear to be the simplest or most obvious ones. Similarly with his substitutions.

Obviously he has more information about the players than I do, so there may be reasons for his decision making, but its coming across as overthinking things and if you are not getting the results then fans will obviously question the decision making.

For the life of me I cant understand why he isnt going with Gent and Spencer at wing back to provide width and attacking threat. Given some of the  other combinations he has gone with I dont see how it is any more risky.

McGinn has been one of our better performers this season so hopefully his return will improve things, but there will be big choices to be made in defence to find the best 3 from McGinn, Mugabi, Casey, Butcher and Blaney.

Midfield wise will we see Davor? Or will he persist with Butcher?

At least up front we know our best 2 so it should be Obika and Biereth again with Wilkinson coming off the bench.

Not expecting to win tonight and would take a draw but we cannot afford to lose.

SK needs to get it right tonight.

[welldaft]

I believe Casey is suspended for tonight so we probably will see a return to defence for Butcher. Depends on whether McGinn is fit enough to start which I doubt. Butcher has looked a bit ponderous in midfield. Maybe he is better suited to staying back and just concentrating on defending. 

I have been largely impressed by Spencer. He is young so he will be inconsistent but I thought he was excellent against Celtic in the defensive role. As for Gent. He does seem better going forwards than defending. When he came on (on Saturday) I noticed how relatively easy it was for the opposition to get past him. Probably why he is not starting . I agree that it would be worth a try to start both Spencer and Gent as suggested as it is not like we have been defensively sound in any case. 
 

 

[Handsome_Devil]

22 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said:

For the life of me I cant understand why he isnt going with Gent and Spencer at wing back to provide width and attacking threat. Given some of the  other combinations he has gone with I dont see how it is any more risky.

This is key for me thinking his time is up, twofold.

1) he was successful by keeping it simple and playing folk in their right position. Abandoning that raised an eyebrow, sticking with it throughout an 11-game winless run (!) is mind-boggling.

2) folk have understanding we're going to sign crap in general and particularly when the budget is squeezed. But to get a pass on that, there has to be at least some logic to the failures - signing Gent and Davor only to barely use them, then the much discussed Soare and Obika gambles calls his judgement into question a lot more than merely signing junk because we have no money.

Anyway, hope I'm wrong...I actually looked today and two wins in the next two probably has us top six Monday and I'll gladly look an idiot.

I'm sticking with my prediction it'll be Clarkson interim manager v St Mirren though.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Handsome_Devil

[thisGRAEME]

Wilkinson has fallen into that weird hole that Polworth lived in, imo. Underlying numbers are good: scores goals, does stuff. Actually watching him: Contributes f**k all outside scoring/making goals.

A weird place to live in, but there we are.

[joewarkfanclub]

3 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Wilkinson has fallen into that weird hole that Polworth lived in, imo. Underlying numbers are good: scores goals, does stuff. Actually watching him: Contributes f**k all outside scoring/making goals.

A weird place to live in, but there we are.

Feels very much like an impact sub.

Doesnt work hard enough to merit a start imho.

If he keeps scoring off the bench, I think we can live with that.

[Quatermass]

What’s kept Kettlewell in a job is the outstanding job he did last season and the fact we are still currently in 8th position. It is a flattering position as we have played more games than those around us. I also think Aberdeen are way ahead of us and will pull away once the Final has been dealt with. I’d also wager we are above what we have budgeted for so while the lack of wins will be a concern, I don’t think he is close to leaving let.

He’ll get tonight (obviously), St Johnstone and St Mirren as a minimum imo. The minute we drop into the bottom two is when the higher ups will act. That could easily happen over the next two weeks. If I was a betting man I’d say someone else (Clarkson) temporarily in the dugout for Rangers/Livi and a new gaffer for next year.

However, beat County tonight and get favourable results in the other two games mentioned above and he is going absolutely nowhere.

I hope he turns it around.

[ropy]

1 hour ago, welldaft said:

I believe Casey is suspended for tonight so we probably will see a return to defence for Butcher. Depends on whether McGinn is fit enough to start which I doubt. Butcher has looked a bit ponderous in midfield. Maybe he is better suited to staying back and just concentrating on defending. 

I have been largely impressed by Spencer. He is young so he will be inconsistent but I thought he was excellent against Celtic in the defensive role. As for Gent. He does seem better going forwards than defending. When he came on (on Saturday) I noticed how relatively easy it was for the opposition to get past him. Probably why he is not starting . I agree that it would be worth a try to start both Spencer and Gent as suggested as it is not like we have been defensively sound in any case. 
 

 

Casey’s suspension will be Saturday 

[ropy]

The manager’s position will be looked at if we are in the bottom two  for a prolonged period of time i.e. a month. 

[Dosser1886]

13 minutes ago, Quatermass said:

I hope he turns it around.

This

[Casagolda]

Sure I’ve said it before but my biggest concern with Kettlewell turning this round is that he’s had one previous season as a manager in his own right and it went almost the exact same way.  

He done a phenomenal job in the short term last season no doubt and you can’t take that away from him. However if you park it to the side for just one second…

The guys had 2 seasons as a manager in his own right, 20/21 with Ross County and this one with us. His combined league record reads-

Played: 33
Won: 6
Drawn: 9
Lost: 18 
For: 29
Against: 53 
Clean Sheets: 5 

So a win rate less than 20%, a loss rate above 50% and some horrific defensive stats that are sadly entirely in keeping with what we’ve witnessed so far this season. 

He got the sack in Dingwall after taking 2 points from his last 10 games in charge, leaving them 4 points adrift at the bottom of the table. He couldn’t turn things round then and personally, I haven’t seen anything to suggest he’s going to do it here either.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

13 hours ago, ropy said:

We might miss KVV for this one, he was usually good for 2 or 3 goals up there.  

Luca Ross has a good goals to minutes ratio against them 

Edited December 5, 2023 by YassinMoutaouakil

[ropy]

2 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Luca Ross has a good goals to minutes ratio against them 

And we’ve kept him fresh since that game 

[welldaft]

3 hours ago, Casagolda said:

He got the sack in Dingwall after taking 2 points from his last 10 games in charge, leaving them 4 points adrift at the bottom of the table. He couldn’t turn things round then and personally, I haven’t seen anything to suggest he’s going to do it here either.

You are right that he did a phenomenal job last season, which is why I think it is a little disingenuous to dismiss his stats from last season when making any comparison. 

Plus I am not overly bothered about how he did at Ross County. Back then he was a novice Manager and you would hope he learned from that time and makes less mistakes this time around. 

He will leave us at some point. This season, the next, the one after….. I think at our club 1 season is a failure, 2 seasons acceptable and anything more than 3 seasons then whoever it is has done a very good job.

In my own opinion you judge the Manager on:

1. His performances this season = I would say not a pass but not a failure just yet. That could change the next 3 weeks.

2. His performance since he joined = pass mainly for his ability to take us from relegation to comfortable mid table with a win record bettered by very few if any teams inc Celtic. (I accept we were playing bottom 6 teams).

3. His performances based on the budget at this disposal. This is key to me. If the budget was cut by say 25/35% then you ought to take that into consideration. From the outside looking in it appears as if he was given less budget / resources than say the Killie Manager or Dundee even.

4. His performance in the transfer window. As point 3. If he was given less to work with it might explain why we have Oli Shaw and not Steven Fletcher for example. You can only piss with the etc etc. No offence to Oli Shaw as he did very well for our equaliser at the weekend. 

I also think the board will take in points 2 and 3 as much as points 1 and 4 when reaching a decision. 

I want him to turn it around. I am sure the Board do. I am also sure most of our fans do. But these next 5 games in Dec will ultimately decide his fate. 

 

[Casagolda]

1 hour ago, welldaft said:

You are right that he did a phenomenal job last season, which is why I think it is a little disingenuous to dismiss his stats from last season when making any comparison. 

Plus I am not overly bothered about how he did at Ross County. Back then he was a novice Manager and you would hope he learned from that time and makes less mistakes this time around. 

But he hasn’t really learned, I guess that was kinda the whole point of the post.

His recruitment was heavily criticised in Dingwall, just like it has been from our supporters this season. His Ross County team couldn’t defend, guess who’s conceded the most goals and has the least clean sheets in the league this season? He went into a tailspin up there that he couldn’t get out off and was ultimately sacked after picking up 2 points in his last 10 matches. He’s currently sitting on 4 points from his last 11 here... 

Like I mean you can put all these things down to coincidence I suppose. Maybe he’s just been incredibly unlucky in both jobs. Or, perhaps you could see it as a pattern. 

I also wasn’t dismissing the job he did last season at all, far from it. However as was said the other day, coming in and giving a struggling team a short term lift over a few months is a completely different thing to building your own squad and trying to manage it through the trials and tribulations of a 45-50 games season. 

My point with Kettlewell was simply that he’s now had 2 chances at it as a manager and on both occasions, it’s gone exactly the same way for him. 

 

[Kempes]

6 hours ago, thisGRAEME said:

Wilkinson has fallen into that weird hole that Polworth lived in, imo. Underlying numbers are good: scores goals, does stuff. Actually watching him: Contributes f**k all outside scoring/making goals.

A weird place to live in, but there we are.

I remember Clyde got a player from Dundee United. Craig Brown said Jim McLean didn’t use him, as all he did was score goals…Guess it’s down to how many goals you score.

[camer0n_mcd]

That lineup is absolutely tragic. Have absolutely 0 confidence in that team getting anything from today 

[ropy]

Wilkinson has made that midfield position his own 

[Doctor Manhattan]

He's just taking the piss now.