joewarkfanclub Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said: I love these three-way scenarios when the positive result someone needs can vary depending on someone else. Assuming Rangers win ofc... If we're 0-0 v Hibs with 15 to go (don't laugh, or call it 2-2) and Dundee are losing 1-0, of course we need to risk everything and go for it but Hibs are in a wonderful dilemma. They'll know Dundee will also be risking everything for a goal so do they shut up shop for their draw and rely on Aberdeen holding on as well or do they keep pushing for a winner incase Dundee score? If both games are draws late on, Dundee will also know a late winner likely at Fir Park (because both will be playing 2-3-5 at this point) which means they'll probably feel obliged to go for it a bit as well (in case the goal falls for Hibs) which opens the risk Aberdeen mug them. Utterly fantastic. As much as I don't get too wound up by the top six in general when Europe is beyond us, there's no doubt this kind of drama is great fun for 90 minutes regardless... Rangers better fucking win on Wednesday! As long as none of the scenarios require US to shut up shop! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Europe/Additional money aside, the top 6 also invites the possibility of a Skippy Sunday scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 6 minutes ago, Richie said: Europe/Additional money aside, the top 6 also invites the possibility of a Skippy Sunday scenario. Can we play Rangers this time? Just to even things up you understand! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobby Dossar Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 2 hours ago, Neil86 said: credit where credit is due, I know it ultimately boils down to the player wanting to stay but convincing him Fir park is the best place for his development is good going. Just show them game time between Lennon Miller and Bailey Rice since his move to THE Rangers Miller Started - 19. Sub - 7 Rice. Started - 2. Sub - 0 Both very highly thought of in the Academy but Rice decide ( more his father decided ) on a move to Ibrox who do you think has advanced their development. ???? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 It didn't affect them eventually winning the title but we did beat Rangers when they were expecting to just turn up and win to clinch the title in 91 and 97. The one in 97 was even sweeter as it was at Ibrox, for 9 in a row and they had organised a big party. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 48 minutes ago, Archie McSquackle said: It didn't affect them eventually winning the title but we did beat Rangers when they were expecting to just turn up and win to clinch the title in 91 and 97. The one in 97 was even sweeter as it was at Ibrox, for 9 in a row and they had organised a big party. We held them in McGhee's first season too, which I'm sure ended up costing them it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camer0n_mcd Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Interesting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 9 minutes ago, camer0n_mcd said: Interesting Can't wait for us to get an investor. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewarkfanclub Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 23 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said: Can't wait for us to get an investor. My thoughts entirely. Just because an investor puts money into the club doesnt mean we wont have to pay it back. Yes it gives us more leeway in respect of overdraft facility, bit no one is gonna just give us £10m and walk away. We still need to be prudent in how we spend our money and try and make more good decisions than bad ones. Otherwise it could all come tumbling down pretty quickly. Hope we can get the terms of the offer ironed out pretty quickly so we get the opportunity to examine it and make a decision one way or the other. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 15 minutes ago, joewarkfanclub said: My thoughts entirely. Just because an investor puts money into the club doesnt mean we wont have to pay it back. Yes it gives us more leeway in respect of overdraft facility, bit no one is gonna just give us £10m and walk away. We still need to be prudent in how we spend our money and try and make more good decisions than bad ones. Otherwise it could all come tumbling down pretty quickly. Hope we can get the terms of the offer ironed out pretty quickly so we get the opportunity to examine it and make a decision one way or the other. Aye... I mean, I should clarify that I was being facetious, Dundee have been a financial basket case for decades (or so it seems) so maybe these guys are doing the best they can to pick up the broken pieces. I've totally forgotten the details of how they got here. But it is highly amusing that we present our stable as anything accounts and some people demand investors because the likes of Dundee might get away from us only for them to publish that total black hole. To be fair, there is no indication their current owners aren't committed and of course in that scenario you can live with losses for a bit...but still. Rather them than us 100%, even if they do outbid us now and again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Both Dundee clubs have owners who are obviously covering shortfalls and boosting budgets. With Dundee, there is as I understand it a plan to develop more than just a new ground out on the edge of town, so that might explain Nelms underwriting all of this from a business plan point of view - but with Utd I just can't see what their guy is getting out of it as they've been running 2-3m deficits every season and running a Premiership squad in the Championship won't help matters. Maybe Conference League group football is now seen as an achievable thing and would allow these types of "investors" to get their money back.. We are running a deficit albeit with cash in the bank to pay for it as things stand - so we aren't in a hole with debt, just unable to outspend anyone other than Livi and so you can see the dilemma we face. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 We are missing Slattery https://x.com/pieandbov/status/1777275988230930881?s=61&t=PGc8UcmdT5aDdco-qWkrFw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 36 minutes ago, Swello said: Both Dundee clubs have owners who are obviously covering shortfalls and boosting budgets. With Dundee, there is as I understand it a plan to develop more than just a new ground out on the edge of town, so that might explain Nelms underwriting all of this from a business plan point of view - but with Utd I just can't see what their guy is getting out of it as they've been running 2-3m deficits every season and running a Premiership squad in the Championship won't help matters. Maybe Conference League group football is now seen as an achievable thing and would allow these types of "investors" to get their money back.. We are running a deficit albeit with cash in the bank to pay for it as things stand - so we aren't in a hole with debt, just unable to outspend anyone other than Livi and so you can see the dilemma we face. A bit like John Boyle. The novelty of losing millions of £s must wear off after a while. At least Boyle supported Motherwell. Mark Ogren at United. No idea. I think the club debt to him is now circa £15m of thereabouts. Exactly what I would not want from an Investor in Motherwell as discussed above. As for Dundee. £6m projected losses for this season and next. Tim Keyes has an Investement firm in the US with his brother but not sure how deep his pockets are. Another bizarre scenario. I mean does he and they have the financial clout to cover these losses. The latest statement says they do but honestly they look like bigger basket cases than we do. At least we spent £1.5m to £2m on pitch and stadium improvements. Unless Netflix guy can show he will do things a lot differently than either Dundee club then I am not at all interested. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 44 minutes ago, Swello said: Both Dundee clubs have owners who are obviously covering shortfalls and boosting budgets. With Dundee, there is as I understand it a plan to develop more than just a new ground out on the edge of town, so that might explain Nelms underwriting all of this from a business plan point of view - but with Utd I just can't see what their guy is getting out of it as they've been running 2-3m deficits every season and running a Premiership squad in the Championship won't help matters. Maybe Conference League group football is now seen as an achievable thing and would allow these types of "investors" to get their money back.. The Conference League was a game-changer for Hearts, who started with an advantage and could spend more knowing there was finally a viable way to win that money back that didn't involve beating the Old Firm. But for everyone else that carrot comes with a huge amount of risk...we could invest literally millions on top of what we'd naturally be able to spend and for what, we're still well off the revenue Hearts can make so the chances of winning it back playing football are low. Even Hibs and Aberdeen are currently a whack behind Hearts and they're clearly levels above us. So just how Ogren intends to get his money back, god knows...if Dundee have a viable cunning plan then fair enough but when you look at what they've sunk in already, it needs to be going some to bring a profit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 19 minutes ago, welldaft said: As for Dundee. £6m projected losses for this season and next. Tim Keyes has an Investement firm in the US with his brother but not sure how deep his pockets are. Another bizarre scenario. Chances of an American being allowed to go to Dundee Council and build a large retail park on one of their parks and make money from it = None Chances of the owner of Dundee FC being allowed to go to Dundee Council and build a large retail park on one of their parks and make money from it = High The American obsession with Scotland is mind boggling to me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Bailey Rice getting his arse handed to him is it? We cannot be stopped. 18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vietnam91 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 3 hours ago, joewarkfanclub said: We still need to be prudent in how we spend our money and try and make more good decisions than bad ones. Sadly the trend is when we have a successful season (17/18) or sell cash cow (Turnbull 2020) we've historically went to the market with an open cheque book and it's not worked. When we're rooked and got our backs to the wall is when we do our best business .... its almost desperation helps to focus our mind. Luca Ross' use this season will continue to baffle me. Scores a last minute equaliser .... continues as an unused sub for the next 13. Did he rock up to training the Monday after his goal giving it the big I am? I mean few of us unless we live near Dalziel Park can speak of training but surely he offers more than a shite loanee we signed at the 11th hour when the summer targets fell through, were happy to send back in January, to then bring back at the 11th hour when out winter targets fell through and make out that was the plan all along. The whole Dundee thing is even more of an eye opener when so many of their fans were giving it out. We're on course to breakeven/minimal loss this year and they're on the hook for £2.9m. And probably forced to spend money on a ground they regard is a dead man walking. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylegsjoe_mfc Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 5 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said: Luca Ross' use this season will continue to baffle me. Scores a last minute equaliser .... continues as an unused sub for the next 13. Did he rock up to training the Monday after his goal giving it the big I am? I mean few of us unless we live near Dalziel Park can speak of training but surely he offers more than a shite loanee we signed at the 11th hour when the summer targets fell through, were happy to send back in January, to then bring back at the 11th hour when out winter targets fell through and make out that was the plan all along. I actually do kind of get it. He came on in the 87th minute as the last throw of the dice and bundled the ball over the line. In the weeks and months that followed that we had nothing but forwards on the bench and actually used our substitutes to decent effect. He's still only 17 as well, so there's no real need to rush him. What did confuse me to an extent was Dylan Wells bumping him in the pecking order in the meantime, but given the news story yesterday, it's perhaps now a bit clearer that it was a sweetener for him to sign a new contract with the EPL vultures around him. Shaw has only played six minutes himself since he returned, so we clearly have been working towards being in a position not to use him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StAndrew7 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 19 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said: Luca Ross' use this season will continue to baffle me. Scores a last minute equaliser .... continues as an unused sub for the next 13. Did he rock up to training the Monday after his goal giving it the big I am? I mean few of us unless we live near Dalziel Park can speak of training but surely he offers more than a shite loanee we signed at the 11th hour when the summer targets fell through, were happy to send back in January, to then bring back at the 11th hour when out winter targets fell through and make out that was the plan all along. I think he's a bit of a victim of Kettlewell's system; he's never struck me as a central striker, more as a winger, so there's definitely that going against him. Also, he's only 17, plenty of time for him to be introduced into the first team. Not everyone in the youth team is Lennon Miller's quality at the same age. Kettlewell has said that he fully expects academy players to play a bigger role next season, with budgets being squeezed more and the need to develop them quicker and provide more of a route to the starting 11, especially given the potential for bigger clubs down south to poach younger players (see Wells as the example). You would expect that Ross and Wells will be part of those plans, along with a few others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 25 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said: The whole Dundee thing is even more of an eye opener when so many of their fans were giving it out. We're on course to breakeven/minimal loss this year and they're on the hook for £2.9m. And probably forced to spend money on a ground they regard is a dead man walking. A reminder that they're 3 (three) points better off than us this season for that loss. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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