Gordon Strachan

[pandarilla]

Yes, Burley had a good record beforehand.  Although a suicidal wage bill helped at Hearts.

He failed in a campaign though, talked shite at times and duly got sacked before he could knacker another one.  I don't think he had the force of personality to carry doing badly in the way that the current incumbent seemingly can.

What are you saying though?  It's contradictory.  If Strachan should be getting more from the players, why provide him with the apparent get-out that the Scotland job prevents good managers from doing well?

I'm intrigued.

It's a combination.

I think the Scotland job is much more difficult than we ever admit. Yes success can bed achieved, but it takes quite a lot of things coming together at the right time. A manager is just one of those things.

The northern Ireland model is not just something that can be done by us wishing so. I won't be surprised if Michael o'Neill goes on to fail at his next appointment - and yet he's doing an incredible job just now.

It's similar with ranieri. A number of shite jobs and then turns up at Leicester and things just click.

[Officer Barbrady]

17 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

It's a combination.

I think the Scotland job is much more difficult than we ever admit. Yes success can bed achieved, but it takes quite a lot of things coming together at the right time. A manager is just one of those things.

The northern Ireland model is not just something that can be done by us wishing so. I won't be surprised if Michael o'Neill goes on to fail at his next appointment - and yet he's doing an incredible job just now.

It's similar with ranieri. A number of shite jobs and then turns up at Leicester and things just click.
 

 

It took a while, but yes, a very pertinent point. Leicester's success, largely makes another team being able to ape it, a million times harder going forward. Probably likewise with O'Neill, who is arguably setting an impossible target for his successor.

 

However, there is one flaw in your point....the base model of both men's teams, with one or two exceptions at most, has kept their team competitive. When Greece hit the skids under Claudio, his stock was at an all time low.....similar to MO'N's during NI's horrendous run at the start. We're not talking about this because we're losing all the time....we want the same answers that both those men have been forced to give, when their team, and anyone's team at that, are performing so poorly. 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

It's a combination.

I think the Scotland job is much more difficult than we ever admit. Yes success can bed achieved, but it takes quite a lot of things coming together at the right time. A manager is just one of those things.

The northern Ireland model is not just something that can be done by us wishing so. I won't be surprised if Michael o'Neill goes on to fail at his next appointment - and yet he's doing an incredible job just now.

It's similar with ranieri. A number of shite jobs and then turns up at Leicester and things just click.
 

 

I agree with the point you repeatedly make about football management not being an exact science.    

That doesn't make it an entire game of chance though.  We've done badly under this guy for some time and he talks in a way which - despite not troubling you - annoys and insults many of those upon whom the national team depends. 

I don't see relative success - a nation like ours qualifying on occasion - as the long shot requiring a particular alignment of the stars that you do though.

Missing out on such an expanded tournament last time was gravely disappointing, especially after a decent start.  Being out of this one so soon is disastrous.

Unless you want to say that management doesn't matter at all, the case for making a change is overwhelming. 

[Gordopolis]

I see Strachan's involvement in the review meeting was via conference call; didn't even bother turning up to his own performance review 

Damn, that's spoiled my image - of Strachan in the Hampden offices, sitting on a chair holding court with the SFA simpletons like Spud in trainspotting. They're all rapt, but when one of them doesn't buy his vague psychobabble, he just points, winks and says 'velocity'... laughter erupts

ETA: and Keith Jackson is probably leaping around wanking in the background too

[Monkey Tennis]

4 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Damn, that's spoiled my image - of Strachan in the Hampden offices, sitting on a chair holding court with the SFA simpletons like Spud in trainspotting. They're all rapt, but when one of them doesn't buy his vague psychobabble, he just points, winks and says 'velocity'... laughter erupts

ETA: and Keith Jackson is probably leaping around wanking in the background too

I think it still works perfectly.  It's just that he appears on a screen.

[Gordopolis]

I think it still works perfectly.  It's just that he appears on a screen.

Strachan on a sunbed in Speedos, with McGhee massaging sun cream into his shoulders a-la Brent and Keenan.

[Officer Barbrady]

He'll be meeting and talking to real people, too. 

 

This is just becoming comical now. Any prospective replacement would run a mile if approached by these dicks if/when Strachan chucks it, if this is their performance management. 

[pandarilla]

I agree with the point you repeatedly make about football management not being an exact science.    

That doesn't make it an entire game of chance though.  We've done badly under this guy for some time and he talks in a way which - despite not troubling you - annoys and insults many of those upon whom the national team depends. 

I don't see relative success - a nation like ours qualifying on occasion - as the long shot requiring a particular alignment of the stars that you do though.

Missing out on such an expanded tournament last time was gravely disappointing, especially after a decent start.  Being out of this one so soon is disastrous.

Unless you want to say that management doesn't matter at all, the case for making a change is overwhelming. 

I've never been dismissive of the arguments to replace Strachan, I just hate the tone of the bandwagon in full flow. All sorts of abuse thrown about and issues simplified beyond belief. I also try to put across a basic defence of the manager (from a long term perspective) and then face a wall of abuse in response.

I'm really surprised he never resigned this week. It's been a dreadful run, and although I (and plenty others) have seen positives in much of the play - the results have been unacceptable.

I just feel in a loop. It's been almost identical issues since the late 90s. I remember my pals slating brown as a shite, boring manager that never tried anything new or fresh.

The job is really not a good one (in terms of chance of success), and won't be until we get a surprise wonder-kid or a good, solid batch of key players. My hope is that things in football can turn round quickly.

Managers obviously have an impact, but I think it's massively exaggerated by the majority of football fans.

[Gordopolis]

I just hate the tone of the bandwagon in full flow. All sorts of abuse thrown about and issues simplified beyond belief.

Fight farce with farce, I say

[BFTD]

Have we ever had a manager who wasn't slated while they were in charge? Craig Brown probably had the best of the popular vote in my lifetime, and there were still lots of folk who thought he was pish. I'm too young to really remember Big Jock's time - did he have a good backing as Scotland boss before he died?

[Gordopolis]

Have we ever had a manager who wasn't slated while they were in charge? Craig Brown probably had the best of the popular vote in my lifetime, and there were still lots of folk who thought he was pish. I'm too young to really remember Big Jock's time - did he have a good backing as Scotland boss before he died?

Good question. I'm in the same boat - only ever see/hear the retrospective admiration for him (which seems entirely fair overall, even though he only really had notable success with Celtic).

[Officer Barbrady]

22 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

I've never been dismissive of the arguments to replace Strachan, I just hate the tone of the bandwagon in full flow. All sorts of abuse thrown about and issues simplified beyond belief. I also try to put across a basic defence of the manager (from a long term perspective) and then face a wall of abuse in response.

I'm really surprised he never resigned this week. It's been a dreadful run, and although I (and plenty others) have seen positives in much of the play - the results have been unacceptable.

I just feel in a loop. It's been almost identical issues since the late 90s. I remember my pals slating brown as a shite, boring manager that never tried anything new or fresh.

The job is really not a good one (in terms of chance of success), and won't be until we get a surprise wonder-kid or a good, solid batch of key players. My hope is that things in football can turn round quickly.

Managers obviously have an impact, but I think it's massively exaggerated by the majority of football fans.

 

If that was true, and there were only so many ways of playing that most managers at some point were plaigarising one another, then i'd agree with the last part. 

 

But it isn't. Tom English touches on the obvious problems like centre-backs, for example.....you and Fannyarse trot out the lines of it being difficult to change anything about a player in a week....arguably, asking a left back or whatever to fill in, gradually, might be an improvement, and potentially get you a permanently better option in the position. He's had ages to even trial it, but hasn't. Improv is a very rare commodity in modern managers, but that doesn't make a lack of it simply acceptable, its complete fatalism as English put it. 

[Gordopolis]

If that was true, and there were only so many ways of playing that most managers at some point were plaigarising one another, then i'd agree with the last part. 

 

But it isn't. Tom English touches on the obvious problems like centre-backs, for example.....you and Fannyarse trot out the lines of it being difficult to change anything about a player in a week....arguably, asking a left back or whatever to fill in, gradually, might get you a permanently better option in the position. He's had ages to even trial it, but hasn't. Improv is a very rare commodity in modern managers, but that doesn't make a lack of it simply acceptable, its complete fatalism as English put it. 

Can only assume he's tried it in training and been horrified by the results?

[ShugtheBuddie]

Nail on head from Tam Mcmanus RE Strachan and Scotland.

http://www.tammcmanus.com/

[Officer Barbrady]

And what does assuming do?

 

You're crediting Strachan with something we should know about, if tried, but don't, because of his dreadful attitude. We've had this with his media/private persona.....surely Fletcher's immediate response, mirroring Strachan's ('the last twenty five minutes don't count') suggests there is no cloaking the fact that they are one and the same. 

[Gordopolis]

And what does assuming do?

 

You're crediting Strachan with something we should know about, if tried, but don't, because of his dreadful attitude. We've had this with his media/private persona.....surely Fletcher's immediate response, mirroring Strachan's ('the last twenty five minutes don't count') suggests there is no cloaking the fact that they are one and the same. 

Assuming as in ffs why else wouldn't he have tried to change a clearly failing system? I don't want to detest Strachan but he's making it really difficult not to.

[Father Ted]

Apologies if this is already out there, but top notch from Tom English.

Gordon Strachan decision is the Scottish FA raising the white flag
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38021627

[Monkey Tennis]

30 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

I've never been dismissive of the arguments to replace Strachan, I just hate the tone of the bandwagon in full flow. All sorts of abuse thrown about and issues simplified beyond belief. I also try to put across a basic defence of the manager (from a long term perspective) and then face a wall of abuse in response.

I'm really surprised he never resigned this week. It's been a dreadful run, and although I (and plenty others) have seen positives in much of the play - the results have been unacceptable.

I just feel in a loop. It's been almost identical issues since the late 90s. I remember my pals slating brown as a shite, boring manager that never tried anything new or fresh.

The job is really not a good one (in terms of chance of success), and won't be until we get a surprise wonder-kid or a good, solid batch of key players. My hope is that things in football can turn round quickly.

Managers obviously have an impact, but I think it's massively exaggerated by the majority of football fans.

 

Again I agree with much of this, but I actually think that you're guiltier than most of simplifying things.

You seem to think that criticism of the manager equates to seeing that position as the sole issue, when I don't think many of Strachan's critics see it that way at all.   

Again, you call for a wunderkind, or a solid batch, yet we continually achieve less than nations with neither.

 Remember too, that plenty on here have not recently boarded any bandwagon, but instead warned of what would probably result if we didn't change things a year ago.

It's good that you post on here because it provides debate.  I still don't really get why you're supportive of Strachan though.

Genuine question: Were you opposed to the sackings of Burley and Levein?

[Officer Barbrady]

6 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Assuming as in ffs why else wouldn't he have tried to change a clearly failing system? I don't want to detest Strachan but he's making it really difficult not to.

Because he knows what he's doing. If he throws a fullback into the centre, it'll take work, and thats just not cricket. Better that they go back to their clubs feeling good, than are challenged to prove their worth when they are needed. 

[TheScarf]

27 minutes ago, ShugtheBuddie said:

Nail on head from Tam Mcmanus RE Strachan and Scotland.

http://www.tammcmanus.com/

He's using my lines the b*****d!

He's correct though, we do have the players, they're just not getting played, and the ones that are, aren't motivated and look puzzled at times.