Gender Pay Gap

[ICTChris]

There's a big report today about the gap between men and women.  Often discussed as the gender pay gap, the Institute for Fiscal Studies finds that women are negatively impacted in terms of pay following having children.  Often women return to work part-time which is seen as penalising them and putting a glass ceiling on their potential progress.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37156178

Any P&Bers feel they have been discriminated against because they've squeezed out a few wee brats?

Should women accept that if they want to take time off to raise their children and take more responsibility for their bambinos they aren't going to get paid as much?

How many talented women are tossed onto the scrapheap because stuffy bosses think they can't be relied upon because they've got a trove of ankle biters?

Should the government start paying people with 'full time mummy' as their FB occupration £22,000 pa?

[KnightswoodBear]

This can only end well.

[doulikefish]

 

[ICTChris]

Surely technology will mean great flexibility in work and allow parents, both men and women, to balance work and family life?  I can work from home work from a number of different locations, have tablets and smartphones to keep up to date with things on.  The days of offices being open from 9am to 5pm are long gone, surely?

Personally speaking I think there is the perception that women returning part-time aren't 'real' staff members.  I used to work for a large financial company and heard people say just about that about some returning staff.  The sadness of this is that some excellent people are sidelined.  I saw exactly this happen, a woman returning from maternity was given pissant stuff to do when she was clearly highly capable, better than the managers in the department in fact.  She eventually moved on to a different role.  

In my current job things are very flexible about where you work and how you chose to work, which is a huge help for families and staff.  It makes for a better workplace and happier and more productive staff.

Anyway, just so you know I'm not a mangina

 

[Romeo]

Woman have boobs.

[Honest Saints Fan]

I'm returning to work part-time 3 days a week. Can't wait! . A 4 day weekend, thank you.

 

[Hillonearth]

Banana - the floor is yours...

[Michael W]

It's inevitable taking extended periods of time off (for whatever reason) will hinder career progression. I don't think there is much getting away from that, really. 

Only really now is flexible working (including homeworking) starting to become more widespread, though it does appear to be more prevalent amongst larger employers. Alongside the new rules concerning maternity/paternity, it will hopefully start to mitigate the challenges by providing much greater flexibility than there has been historically. Results aren't going to appear overnight, however.

Homeworking in particular would be very useful, as there really isn't a reason many people can't work from home these days. It solves a lot of difficulties around childcare arrangements in particular, which is probably a big part of the reason a lot of women return to work part-time. There is little point in going back full-time only to have your wages decimated with childcare costs.

My own workplace are quite good with alternative working patterns (flexi time, compressed weeks etc), but they are not keen at all on working from home. It is allowed sparingly, but long-term arrangements are more or less a non-starter. There is absolutely no reason at all that I, or much of the people I work with, cannot work from home - it's just our employer doesn't like it. 

I also think there is an issue with part-time workers generally, however. I haven't ever heard it myself, but my wife has said more than a few times that people she's worked with (in management positions) more or less ridicule the thought of part-time work and won't take people working part-time seriously. This does, of course, affect women a lot more than it does men. In my own workplace, part-time staff seem to suffer disproportionately in the performance rankings. 

[Alert Mongoose]

Discouraging women from having children is definitely the solution to the demographic time bomb. Pitchfork waving neanderthals cutting off immigration will help too.

[D.A.F.C]

The problem comes from senior management being made up of older men who don't give a shit about anyone else apart from themselves.

Women need time off to bring up kids and their careers shouldn't suffer but it must be difficult for a guy to see a female colleague get promoted ahead of them and weeks later get up the duff and disappear.

[Aladdin]

The gender pay gap is often misrepresented as women being paid less to carry out the same roles as men which isnt the case.  There doesnt seem to be any distinction between the gender imbalances in different jobs which lead to the anomaly.

It should more accurately be called an earnings gap and would be better tackled by exploring what can be done to to encourage more women to study STEM subjects at university which often yield higher paying jobs.  That and minimising the effect child birth has on career progression however, even with the new shared parental leave scheme, its debatable how many women would want to cut short maternity leave to get back to the grind in the hope of a promotion.

[Gnash]

Women (and men!) who take time off to have children and / or work part time accrue less experience than those who work full time without career breaks.  It makes sense that on average those people don't progress as far in their careers and hence get paid less.  That doesn't mean there is any discrimination or even any problem, but it's possible there may be some discrimination in the figures as well.

As for flexible working, I have been on both sides as someone who works flexibly and someone who manages a team who have requested to work flexibly.  Considering part time requests is really difficult because as an immediate manager it leaves you short staffed, and if your team's work / location is different to the wider department, it's especially difficult to get cover.  Homeworking is easy to grant, but you have to trust your staff and you cannot combine working from home with looking after children. 

[welshbairn]

Machines are treated more rationally than humans. If a factory installation needs a major overhall every ten years or so it will be closed down, and given however long it takes to come back to full productivity. The essential human reproductive system is ignored.

[tongue_tied_danny]

Women may get paid less, but I would swap any amount of money just to be a lesbian for only one day...

 

[banana]

11 hours ago, ICTChris said:

There's a big report today about the gap between men and women.  Often discussed as the gender pay gap, the Institute for Fiscal Studies finds that women are negatively impacted in terms of pay following having children.

A result found and reported for the 1000th time over the years by 'misogynists'. I'm skeptical but maybe this time the message will stick - there is no fucking gender pay gap, there is an earnings gap for various obvious reasons, one of which being having babies.

11 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Should women accept that if they want to take time off to raise their children and take more responsibility for their bambinos they aren't going to get paid as much?

Yes, treating women like infants should be a thing of the past. Women should, as men are, be responsible for their choices and the effects of those choices.

[Newbornbairn]

Discussing this with the wife last night she said the problem lies with the women who put off having children until later in their career. You've seen the type "We'd love to start a family but conditions aren't right just now etc etc". She feels women should have their children early then have their career - if nothing else, women's bodies are at their peak biologically for having babies from 18-25.

[KnightswoodBear]

I'm not sure about the women, but homeworking negatively affects my productivity because of all the wanking.

[Lisa Cuddy]

2 hours ago, KnightswoodBear said:

I'm not sure about the women, but homeworking negatively affects my productivity because of all the wanking.

No, that sounds about right for women too.

 

[bud1876]

Is there not an app out yet that would speed up child birth?
Also one that would oversee childcare.
Would solve a lot of these issues.

[Hampden Diehard]

Interestingly, equal pay for equal work doesn't seem to be in place at Wimbledon where banging a ball about for 3 sets is deemed to be equal to banging a ball about for 5 sets.

That (almost) jokingly aside, whilst the effect of losing staff who fall pregnant is a real one in many cases, it's only fair that this isn't taken into account with salaries.  Most jobs rely on a level of expertise rather than experience.  I'm sure we all know people whose "experience" involves being consistently pish at their job for a very long time.