coprolite Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Gus Setsniffer said: https://wearetheenglish.com/i-want-my-country-back-england-badge---blue-20333-p.asp Loving the st George (Palestinian chap), medieval knight (French chaps, with Scandi origins) and lion (not native to Britain in last 50,000 years) fetish. Disappointing lack of spitfires and poppies on the pages i saw. I don't think they're patriotic enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said: Starmer is dreadful Utterly useless. Corbyn could even have done better. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Corbyn could have just said that he opposed Brexit and wanted another vote and he'd have been pretty much guaranteed a 40% share of the vote. Instead the doddery old c**t spent three years trying to win back the vote of some racists from Middlesbrough and effectively ended Labour as a credible opposition, giving the UK free reign to lurch further and further to the right. The Wee Nippy brigade will keep us shackled to this utter farce of a one-party nation for the foreseeable future. It's a good laugh, isn't it? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted December 30, 2020 Author Share Posted December 30, 2020 https://wearetheenglish.com/i-want-my-country-back-england-badge---blue-20333-p.aspOne of the actual quotes they are celebrating [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 26 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Utterly useless. Corbyn could even have done better. Steady on... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, Gaz said: Corbyn could have just said that he opposed Brexit and wanted another vote and he'd have been pretty much guaranteed a 40% share of the vote. Instead the doddery old c**t spent three years trying to win back the vote of some racists from Middlesbrough and effectively ended Labour as a credible opposition, giving the UK free reign to lurch further and further to the right. The Wee Nippy brigade will keep us shackled to this utter farce of a one-party nation for the foreseeable future. It's a good laugh, isn't it? Corbyn literally did this before the 2019 election and it was the primary reason why Labour lost so many votes. Every single credible analysis of the 2019 election points to this. There simply weren't enough Remainers for the numbers to work. Backing Remain was a huge tactical error that cost Labour the election. So now you have Starmer, a guy who pushed like f*ck for backing Remain, now effectively conceding the cause because he realises it's not a votewinner. Remind me who the populists are? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academically Deficient Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 He's back!! Where's he been?? Anyway, he's declared victory in Brexit. And has declared the "Battle for the Union" has begun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 I'm watching the debate on catch up - about 1 hour behind. Blackford's speech was absolutely superb - continually challenging Boris to respond which he of course declined. This must be his best ever performance since he became SNP leader at WM. Independence here we come! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 43 minutes ago, Gaz said: Corbyn could have just said that he opposed Brexit and wanted another vote and he'd have been pretty much guaranteed a 40% share of the vote. Instead the doddery old c**t spent three years trying to win back the vote of some racists from Middlesbrough and effectively ended Labour as a credible opposition, giving the UK free reign to lurch further and further to the right. I think Corbyn was always fearful of any accusation of betrayal. There were plenty of people around him who love words like treachery, traitor, sell out and so on. If you ever thought the EU was a bad idea then you should still think so now. In fact you should never change your mind on anything. Dogmatism at its worst. That meant he was either very muddled or felt compromised when the EU referendum took place in 2016. Maybe he had hoped Remain would win without him having to express his opinion too strongly to anyone. In 2019 it got too much. If Labour thought a second referendum was absolutely necessary then why had they not campaign better in 2016? It seemed yet another example of dither, delay and indecision. Not ideal for someone who wanted to be Prime Minister. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jedi Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 Well at least the Scottish Tories will have increases their policies for May's election from one (stop Indy Ref 2), to two...Stop Indy Ref 2, and er, level up! A one page manifesto awaits again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, G51 said: Corbyn literally did this before the 2019 election and it was the primary reason why Labour lost so many votes. Every single credible analysis of the 2019 election points to this. There simply weren't enough Remainers for the numbers to work. Backing Remain was a huge tactical error that cost Labour the election. So now you have Starmer, a guy who pushed like f*ck for backing Remain, now effectively conceding the cause because he realises it's not a votewinner. Remind me who the populists are? Yep. Virtually every credible analysis points to Labour losing its Leavers while Tories retained its Remainers. As virtually everyone who wasn't blinded by FBPE brain had predicted would happen. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Academically Deficient Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jedi said: Well at least the Scottish Tories will have increases their policies for May's election from one (stop Indy Ref 2), to two...Stop Indy Ref 2, and er, level up! A one page manifesto awaits again. Not one of them had the nerve to show up in Parliament. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Fullerene said: I think Corbyn was always fearful of any accusation of betrayal. There were plenty of people around him who love words like treachery, traitor, sell out and so on. If you ever thought the EU was a bad idea then you should still think so now. In fact you should never change your mind on anything. Dogmatism at its worst. That meant he was either very muddled or felt compromised when the EU referendum took place in 2016. Maybe he had hoped Remain would win without him having to express his opinion too strongly to anyone. In 2019 it got too much. If Labour thought a second referendum was absolutely necessary then why had they not campaign better in 2016? It seemed yet another example of dither, delay and indecision. Not ideal for someone who wanted to be Prime Minister. Corbyn had a huge conflict because he passionately believed in Brexit but he led a parliamentary party that was overwhelmingly Remain. That's what fucked the whole thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, G51 said: Corbyn literally did this before the 2019 election and it was the primary reason why Labour lost so many votes... The anti-Leave parties needed to do an electoral deal so it was a straight Remain vs Leave contest in each constituency otherwise the side that was less split electorally was likely to win in an election defined by Brexit. Unity government long enough to get Brexit completely reversed or EEA status achieved then hold another election once that was out the way. Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon were way too eager to have an election for narrow party political advantage (the one that sounds like Lulu delusionally and with a well-deserved outcome on a personal level, and the other very cynically but with good reason) when there was zero chance of that happening and every chance that the Brexit Party was going to do what they ultimately did as they were only in it to secure Leave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Corbyn had a huge conflict because he passionately believed in Brexit but he led a parliamentary party that was overwhelmingly Remain. That's what fucked the whole thing. He far outstripped Alan Johnson in the number of media appearances on behalf of Remain lol despite Johnson being the supposed arch-Remainer and leader of the Labour In campaign. His 7/10 rating of the EU might've pissed off the hardcore FBPErs who write European on their application forms but it was something that might've spoken to folk with justifiable scepticism of the EU project more than Alan Johnson's EUphoric bollocks and David Cameron's Project Fear. It's ultimately a moot point, however, as the Labour campaigns were a peripheral feature of the entire referendum and its trajectory because the governing party and all their hangers on ensured it remained, as John McDonnell put it, the "gang warfare of the Eton playing fields" dragging the country into the "intellectual gutter". Edited December 30, 2020 by NotThePars 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: The anti-Leave parties needed to do an electoral deal so it was a straight Remain vs Leave contest in each constituency otherwise the side that was less split electorally was likely to win in an election defined by Brexit. Unity government long enough to get Brexit completely reversed or EEA status achieved then hold another election once that was out the way. Jo Swinson and Nicola Sturgeon were way too eager to have an election for narrow party political advantage (the one that sounds like Lulu delusionally and with a well-deserved outcome on a personal level, and the other very cynically but with good reason) when there was zero chance of that happening and every chance that the Brexit Party was going to do what they ultimately did as they were only in it to secure Leave. If you turned it into a straight Remain vs Leave contest, you'd have gotten the same outcome as the 2016 referendum. Remain would have been whooped. There was a compromise position available to Remainers when the indicative votes were being held - a Brexit so soft it barely counted as Brexit at all. But this wasn't acceptable to the fanatics, who could only accept some kind of annulment or reversal of 2016. This was by far the best opportunity to avoid ending up where the UK is now, and Remainers rejected it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, NotThePars said: He far outstripped Alan Johnson in the number of media appearances on behalf of Remain lol despite Johnson being the supposed arch-Remainer and leader of the Labour In/ EUphoric or whatever fucking garbage the PLP named their campaign. I remember him being almost invisible during the campaign and being half hearted when he did appear. He claimed he was spending all his time out campaigning on the street and at rallies to bother with the MSM, so maybe that's true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, G51 said: If you turned it into a straight Remain vs Leave contest, you'd have gotten the same outcome as the 2016 referendum. Remain would have been whooped. There was a compromise position available to Remainers when the indicative votes were being held - a Brexit so soft it barely counted as Brexit at all. But this wasn't acceptable to the fanatics, who could only accept some kind of annulment or reversal of 2016. This was by far the best opportunity to avoid ending up where the UK is now, and Remainers rejected it. There was no chance of May dropping freedom of movement exclusion so the EU wouldn't have agreed to any customs union/single market soft option. The only way it could have happened was if the opposition parties and rebel Tories united around a new leader after winning a vote of no confidence, and that wasn't going to happen either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: There was no chance of May dropping freedom of movement exclusion so the EU wouldn't have agreed to any customs union/single market soft option. The only way it could have happened was if the opposition parties and rebel Tories united around a new leader after winning a vote of no confidence, and that wasn't going to happen either. Sure, because according to this logic the only way of stopping Brexit was to get behind Corbyn, and stopping Corbyn was far more important than stopping Brexit to these people. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted December 30, 2020 Share Posted December 30, 2020 1 minute ago, G51 said: If you turned it into a straight Remain vs Leave contest, you'd have gotten the same outcome as the 2016 referendum. Remain would have been whooped. There was a compromise position available to Remainers when the indicative votes were being held - a Brexit so soft it barely counted as Brexit at all. But this wasn't acceptable to the fanatics, who could only accept some kind of annulment or reversal of 2016. This was by far the best opportunity to avoid ending up where the UK is now, and Remainers rejected it. In fairness to LTL, if you hadn't had the Hated Lib Dems running in this election on pure lies and misdirection then you wouldn't have a Conservative MP representing Grenfell. Sam Gyimah might be the biggest disgrace of the entire election. Just now, welshbairn said: I remember him being almost invisible during the campaign and being half hearted when he did appear. He claimed he was spending all his time out campaigning on the street and at rallies to bother with the MSM, so maybe that's true. This article puts Corbyn's media appearances at 6.1% of the total coverage versus Johnson's 1%. In fairness, they do state that the accounts of the campaign claim that Johnson was more actively engaged but Seymour argues that Corbyn made sixty public appearances in as many days at the end of the campaign and quotes noted Corbyn supporter Angela Eagle praising him for travelling “up and down the country, pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tire”. If Corbyn, and Labour, were actively engaged in public appearances and campaigning that wasn't being reflected in TV coverage then you one have major suspect for why that is which the article below points to. https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/08/10/the-bbcs-obsession-with-balance-took-labour-off-air-during-the-referendum-campaign/ Not to be all The Hated BBC and it's also the fault of Labour for never coming to terms with the coverage mismatch but I firmly remember the campaign being framed as an internal battle of the Conservative Party and apparently that's backed up by the stats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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