Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

9 hours ago, strichener said:

TBF, that isn't blowing it out of the water.  You post paragraph after paragraph of how the greeks are 150 years behind the times and brush off the EU allowing them to into the Eurozone with a single sentence.  The consequences of this one decision was far more significant to the current state of Greece than you allude to.  Given your own admission that the country was an economic basket case when admitted, you have to ask who loaned the money into this basket case and why the EU would be attempting to save these institutions from those financial decisions.  EU expansion trumps all other considerations (other than protecting German banks).

There is a difference of course, between the 'EU' and the 'Eurozone'.

As I said, Greece should never have been admitted into the Eurozone. That was a huge error by all concerned.

On the other hand, as I (correctly) pointed out, EU investment has greatly helped Greece over the last 30 years. As it has many other countries on the fringes of Europe, such as Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc.

You use the word 'expansion' in a derogatory sense. I could equally use the phrase 'the strong helping the weak'.

If there had been no EU, what we would have in Europe today would be a handful of economically strong countries each with their own protectionist agenda, and with closed borders, and a larger number of almost 2nd world, poorer countries on the fringes...struggling to cope and effectively going bust every few years.

While I acknowledge that things are far from perfect, I prefer the Europe that the EU has given us...100%.

[Fide]

10 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I know, and that is, in fact, why I will stay. Cheers!

 

Apart from Yourself, Fidiot, Cream Cheese, mjw, Wee Willie and several others...... Obviously bothers you somewhat !

 

Uh oh.  Someone's been at the banter decanter.

[strichener]

1 hour ago, Bob Mahelp said:

There is a difference of course, between the 'EU' and the 'Eurozone'.

As I said, Greece should never have been admitted into the Eurozone. That was a huge error by all concerned.

On the other hand, as I (correctly) pointed out, EU investment has greatly helped Greece over the last 30 years. As it has many other countries on the fringes of Europe, such as Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy etc.

You use the word 'expansion' in a derogatory sense. I could equally use the phrase 'the strong helping the weak'.

If there had been no EU, what we would have in Europe today would be a handful of economically strong countries each with their own protectionist agenda, and with closed borders, and a larger number of almost 2nd world, poorer countries on the fringes...struggling to cope and effectively going bust every few years.

While I acknowledge that things are far from perfect, I prefer the Europe that the EU has given us...100%.

I see you have completely ignored the issue of who loaned the money to Greece and why the trioka would not allow Greece to default on these debts and instead enforced austerity that the Tories could only ever dream of.  The bailout money for "Greece" was nothing to do with the lending to the Greek economy, I am sure you are intelligent enough to follow the capital flows. 

I am not sure that anyone that backs the EU in it's handling of Greece has any basis to complain about UK austerity (this is not directed at you specifically).

Eurofile Myth No 98231: The EU bailed out Greece.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I can recommend this book

A Concise History of Greece, Richard Clogg, Cambridge University Press

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/A_Concise_History_of_Greece.html?id=H5pyUIY4THYC&redir_esc=y

[flyingscot]

You can have a read of Yanis Varoufakis too https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/03/the-six-brexit-traps-that-will-defeat-theresa-may?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

3 hours ago, strichener said:

Eurofile Myth No 98231: The EU bailed out Greece.

I don't normally pick up spelling errors but the irony of this one from someone claiming expertise on the subject of Greece was delicious.

[NotThePars]

"denuded Eastern Europe of its brightest and best" ooft nae bother Paul Nuttall.

[Zetterlund]

 

[dorlomin]

 

In a similar vein, given the age and alcohol consumption of the Colonel Blimps who read the thing, one wonders when many of the daily mail readers last had their hands on a good election.

Edited May 4, 2017 by dorlomin

[Fide]

20 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The EU is not a continent.

I saw an education opportunity and jumped to help.

You are vey welcome.

"very"

HTH

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

On 03/05/2017 at 16:07, Jambomo said:

 

She says the consequences will be serious if this negotiation is not a success.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/03/general-election-2017-official-campaign-begins-politics-live

At some point someone will point out that saying that while also saying that a 'no deal' outcome would be fine is completely illogical. 

[welshbairn]

58 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

The EU is not a continent.

I saw an education opportunity and jumped to help.

You are vey welcome.

Reassuring to know we'll shortly be joining Belarus and the Vatican as the only European States to reject the authority of the European Court of Human Rights, which we set up.

Edited May 4, 2017 by welshbairn

[strichener]

8 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

I don't normally pick up spelling errors but the irony of this one from someone claiming expertise on the subject of Greece was delicious.

Your ability to pick up on spelling mistakes is obviously better than your ability to assimilate a post.  Well done to you.

[Jambomo]

14 hours ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

At some point someone will point out that saying that while also saying that a 'no deal' outcome would be fine is completely illogical. 

Indeed. I don't think Tory voters are interested in small matters such as logic, only that we are the biggest and best and British only and all that garbage.

[madwullie]

Genuine question: what is actually in it for the UK to have no deal / a hard brexit. What is the strength of this position for us regarding the eu?

[doulikefish]

[DI Bruce Robertson]

Genuine question: what is actually in it for the UK to have no deal / a hard brexit. What is the strength of this position for us regarding the eu?

I'm no expert on the intricacies of European Politics, but, I'd imagine the fact that Tess can say " well, we gave no ground to them, they couldn't accept that we are GREAT Britain, we really showed them" - as the xenophobes & racists applaud, whilst the UK goes down the lavatory.
That's the only reason I can see.

[Jambomo]

9 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Genuine question: what is actually in it for the UK to have no deal / a hard brexit. What is the strength of this position for us regarding the eu?

Nothing really. I think that overall the EU would rather remain on decent terms with the UK and sort out a trade deal than not, however that is very far away from the EU needing to have a trade deal with us or particularly having to go out of their way to accommodate our wishes.

I genuinely think that May is overplaying the 'We'll walk away with no deal' point. I don't think the no deal rhetoric is really aimed at the EU, its aimed at us, to prepare us for the fact that we will leave with no deal because having some kind of deal will mean the UK has to keep some of the things it would want rid of, freedom of movement is the most obvious thing but I think it would mean also having to be a part of the  European Convention on Human Rights, which I think they want out of. They also want the EU to be the ones left with the blame when we get no deal.

What they term a bad deal in this case would be anything else. We would have much more restricted access and ability to change things within the EU but be forced to live under their rules. What they consider a good/bad deal isn't necessarily the same as what the UK people consider them to be.

[Cerberus]

 

[Crossbill]

I suspect the appeal of not striking a deal with the EU will be the complete lack of conformity to acceptable standards that would otherwise be required.  So, as threatened, we could end up a gigantic offshore tax haven, with cut-throat corporation tax, personal tax loopholes galore for those that can afford to exploit them and a bonfire of workers rights.

The cynic in me says that this may have been the end game all along - it is after all pretty much a Tory wet dream.