Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Blue-Toon]

4 hours ago, KarlMarx said:

Democracy is merely mob rule whereby 52% of the people can bully the other 48% into doing something they know is wrong for the country.

I will never listen to the knuckledraggers like Farage and Robinson telling me we're better being controlled by Trump than being part of a well run EU.

That's the problem. If the EU was "well run" Remain would have won the referendum.

[Fullerene]

I don't like the idea that if anyone in the Labour Party is opposed to Brexit then that is seen as an attempt to undermine Jeremy Corbyn as opposed to an attempt to say it is a really bad idea.

Not every opinion in the world comes down to being for Jeremy Corbyn or against him.

It is a return to good old fashioned paranoia.

Probably consulting Kim Jong Un on what to do next.

[KarlMarx]

31 minutes ago, Blue-Toon said:

That's the problem. If the EU was "well run" Remain would have won the referendum.

The right wing bigots like UKRAP and tge rest of the insular Little Englanders would still vote leave.

Such a major decision should not have had as little as 52% being allowed to dictate to us what happens.

Being in the EU is better than being allied to Trump and his bigoted far right entourage.

[welshbairn]

53 minutes ago, Blue-Toon said:

That's the problem. If the EU was "well run" Remain would have won the referendum.

Few people knew whether it is or isn't. The referendum was based almost solely on gut feeling and prejudice.

Edited September 26, 2017 by welshbairn

[mjw]

London voted fairly heavily in favour of Remain almost across the board, didn't it? Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me but I've got it in my head that it did. Being cynical it may well be that anyone in the post of mayor there, Khan or otherwise, would be very keen to portray themselves as being pro-EU whatever their private position may be...

It was the only region to vote totally in favour of remain according to The Mayor of London.

[Chapelhall chap]

19 minutes ago, mjw said:

It was the only region to vote totally in favour of remain according to The Mayor of London.

Maybe he thinks that the NI and Scotland are "Nations" ( A La Cameron/May etc )  and did vote a remain majority, but are not "Regions" whatever that term means in England?   Did I really hear Kez saying there should be a second referendum on the EU? Has she switched to the Liberals or does she want to continue a divisive and wounding period of time? It's all a mess.

[Alan Stubbs]

On 25/09/2017 at 18:01, beermonkey said:

The brexit vote was always going to be ignored from the moment the result was confirmed, 1st,  it was a year to trigger article 50,  then it's (at least) 2 years negotiations, now we're getting (at least) 2 years transition.

 

I guarantee they'll drag it out even further with some other bullshit excuse, then another, then another.......And don't be surprised if there's a second vote at some point, Then a third if the result goes against them again.

Welcome to EU style democracy,    In other words, there is no democracy in the EU.

Jeez, you guys just can't shake the habit of blaming the EU for everything, eh?

The British Government that Brexiteers couldn't wait to be "back in control" stall for time and ask for a wee extension to get their homework done - boo, EU bad.

You're probably right that it will drag out for ages. Mainly because the gormless diddies whose "sovereignty" you were so concerned about don't have a fucking clue what they're doing.

[beermonkey]

6 hours ago, KarlMarx said:

Democracy is merely mob rule whereby 52% of the people can bully the other 48% into doing something they know is wrong for the country.

I will never listen to the knuckledraggers like Farage and Robinson telling me we're better being controlled by Trump than being part of a well run EU.

Sorry..those last 3 words prove you're a brainwashed moron. keep watching sky & the BBC

6 hours ago, Antlion said:

So if the UK government continue to drag things out, and provide future referenda, that would be the EU's fault? I take it you also suspect the EU of being Jack the Ripper, and of peripheral involvement in the kidnapping of Patty Hearst?

The "Uk government & the EU" are run by the same people.

6 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

Jeez, you guys just can't shake the habit of blaming the EU for everything, eh?

The British Government that Brexiteers couldn't wait to be "back in control" stall for time and ask for a wee extension to get their homework done - boo, EU bad.

You're probably right that it will drag out for ages. Mainly because the gormless diddies whose "sovereignty" you were so concerned about don't have a fucking clue what they're doing.

Oh they know what they're doing alright, unfortunatley, the vast majority of the people still listen to the MSM propaganda instead of doing real research into what the EU really is.

[KarlMarx]

11 minutes ago, beermonkey said:

Sorry..those last 3 words prove you're a brainwashed moron. keep watching sky & the BBC

The "Uk government & the EU" are run by the same people.

Oh they know what they're doing alright, unfortunatley, the vast majority of the people still listen to the MSM propaganda instead of doing real research into what the EU really is.

I would say you're the moron my friend.

You were fooled by the far right fuckers like Farage only in for themselves.

I'll continue to watch Al Jazeera and Russia Today you watch Fox News for its comedy value.

Keep bowing down to the alky toad Farage and the racist Trump.

We all know it was all about those pesky immigrants coming here to do the jobs white Brits are too fucking lazy to do.

Edited September 26, 2017 by KarlMarx

[mjw]

Beer monkey back to tell us the truth is out there.
Only he knows where to look though[emoji53]

[Alan Stubbs]

The idea that this is all some nefarious (I'm guessing probably Judaism-related) conspiracy, gives the UK Government far too much credit.

They're just not very good.

[Jacksgranda]

On ‎25‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 18:07, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

Unfortunately for you all I speak your language.

Naw. There's more to it than that. Look at the US election threads. Look at the German election thread. Says a lot about the cultural and political orientation of your country.

Really? 

19 hours ago, TheProgressiveLiberal said:

That's a fair enough point.

Here's the problem with a politically integrated Europe. Democracy requires a citizenry that understands the issues. Based on this board I'm not sure that you guys possess much understand of German politics. Certainly not to the level of American politics. How are you supposed to be self governing in a political union with people you don't seem to understand or care about all that much? Again, whoever is in charge of Germany is the most important person politically for the EU.

It seems you don't possess much understand of English.

[Fullerene]

On ‎25‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 18:01, beermonkey said:

The brexit vote was always going to be ignored from the moment the result was confirmed, 1st,  it was a year to trigger article 50,  then it's (at least) 2 years negotiations, now we're getting (at least) 2 years transition.

 

I guarantee they'll drag it out even further with some other bullshit excuse, then another, then another.......And don't be surprised if there's a second vote at some point, Then a third if the result goes against them again.

Welcome to EU style democracy,    In other words, there is no democracy in the EU.

If the U.K. government really had a clear plan on how it would all work - then maybe it would happen.
At the moment, it all sounds like daydreaming, wishful thinking and right wing utopianism.
(Utopianism is not consigned only to the left).

We are going to have our cake and eat it!
At a practical level - that is not going to work.
Please provide some clue that anything has been thought through at a practical level.

So far, I have heard nothing that suggests that it has been.

Maybe Brexit will a great success but I am not convinced.  Convince me.  .. and without blaming the rest of the world at the same time.

[John Lambies Doos]

Let's face it, this Tory Govt has no intent on pulling out of EU. It will go on and on and on until lie of land changes!

The Original Post

[Cerberus]

There is massive support in the government for coming out the EU.
The Government's sheer incompetency has stopped it from going ahead, of which everyone should be thankful.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, Cerberus said:

There is massive support in the government for coming out the EU.
 

I'm not sure about that, most of their MP's voted remain. I think a good few are just playing lip service to the referendum and would favour another referendum if the opinion polls were positive.

[strichener]

4 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Few people knew whether it is or isn't. The referendum was based almost solely on gut feeling and prejudice.

So is it?

[welshbairn]

21 minutes ago, strichener said:

So is it?

I'm sure like any organisation it could be more efficient and better run. More powers to the Parliament would give it more democratic credibility, and the shifts between Brussels and Strasbourg are indefensible. But for less than 0.5% of our GDP the benefits of membership far out way the costs imo. It's importance is not just about narrow trade and finance, it's about projecting a powerful European perspective to the world, and setting minimum standards of governance, judicial standards and human rights within Europe, and providing a massive disincentive to conflict within the Continent. By leaving we're just abdicating responsibility for our region while gaining zilch.

[TheProgressiveLiberal]

15 hours ago, Fullerene said:

By that logic, the United States should fall apart unless everyone has an understanding of what life is like in each of the other states.

Do you think people in California are overly concerned about New York State or Texas or Illinois?

I think if you asked somebody in California who is the governor of Texas or the Mayor or Chicago - they might not know and more importantly they might not care.
Similarly if you asked someone in Illinois what they knew about politics in California.

If Germany has a level-headed leader running a level-headed government - then that is all that matters for most people here IMO.

Two differences:

1. Structure. For the most part the local politics of the constituent parts of the US affect the local people living there. The US federal government sits unquestionably at the top. The way I understand the EU is that Germany has been using it to export it's national policy. For instance, part of the problem with the Euro is that it was set up with Germany's economy in mind rather than the economy of Italy or Greece. Also, from what I understand Germany just ripped up the EU rules on migrants during the crisis and imposed their national policy of accepting whoever came onto the rest of the continent. That type of stuff can't happen in the US.

2. We in different US states might be on average different, but we aren't foreigner level different. We have lots in common culturally and can easily understand the differences. I don't think the same is true between EU states. People in California, Vermont, and Alabama have way more in common than people in Ireland, Poland, and Italy it seems to me.

11 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

You are certainly picking up the lingo for an American!

Or, are you really Swampy?

Americans never say "Naw" as a substitute for "No?"

[NotThePars]

Nicki Minaj said "naw" a couple of days back but I can't conclusively deny she wasn't brought up in Ruchill or somewhere.