NotThePars Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 I don’t disagree, but how is Brexit going to attempt to address these same issues, and why would you expect a Conservative government to even care when they’ve not only failed to address the issues in eight years but actively sought to make them worse? Far less depressing to hold our hands up, start again where we were in 2016 and try to make things right. I don’t expect Brexit to resolve those issues. I just don’t think the people pushing the hardest for a People’s Vote care either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 12 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: Trump says deal is shit for UK, so must be good 7 hours ago, Cerberus said: Trump saying May’s deal would jeopardise a UK-US trade relationship. Trump is setting it up for the US to dictate horrendous terms to whoever is running the UK at the point of negotiation, knowing that the UK won't have much room for negotiation anyway. It will be an incredibly easy to work out trade relationship, with the US reaping far more of the benefits than the UK. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Ross. said: Trump is setting it up for the US to dictate horrendous terms to whoever is running the UK at the point of negotiation, knowing that the UK won't have much room for negotiation anyway. It will be an incredibly easy to work out trade relationship, with the US reaping far more of the benefits than the UK. Could be he'd give us a good deal just to f**k off the EU. Doubt it though, chlorinated chicken and privatise the NHS more likely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie S Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 It’s funny how most of the folk that think that public plebiscites (rather than the parliamentary kind of democracy that we’ve favoured for centuries) are the ultimate expression of democracy, now believe that a further plebiscite, when the consequences of our collective idiocy have become glaringly apparent, would be ‘undemocratic.’ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ross. said: Trump is setting it up for the US to dictate horrendous terms to whoever is running the UK at the point of negotiation, knowing that the UK won't have much room for negotiation anyway. It will be an incredibly easy to work out trade relationship, with the US reaping far more of the benefits than the UK. That's always been the plan and anyone who didn't think that this was going to happen is either incredibly naive or incredibly stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: privatise the NHS The US has already attempted to do this via TTIP. Anything negotiated with the UK post brexit would probably have this as a priority. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Frankie S said: It’s funny how most of the folk that think that public plebiscites (rather than the parliamentary kind of democracy that we’ve favoured for centuries) are the ultimate expression of democracy, now believe that a further plebiscite, when the consequences of our collective idiocy have become glaringly apparent, would be ‘undemocratic.’ Hence the reason many dictatorships have been the most successful throughout history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Just now, welshbairn said: Could be he'd give us a good deal just to f**k off the EU. Doubt it though, chlorinated chicken and privatise the NHS more likely. I think he's been nobbled. It's not that long ago he was telling us that Boris would make an excellent PM. Farage is another who seems to have become one of his big buddies. Kind of makes you wonder if either have been in contact with him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Why is there talk about a TV debate when there is no plans for a public vote ... Very strange 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Just now, John Lambies Doos said: Why is there talk about a TV debate when there is no plans for a public vote ... Very strange It's just trying to win over a Commons majority. if May can win through with her arguments, get a lot of good press and positive polling on the back of it, she's betting a lot of her opposition will melt away. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 3 hours ago, pandarilla said: I think he's enjoying the media squabble, and thinks that the consequence will be severe for a few months - but things will quickly establish themselves. The threat of some products being unavailable for a while, and some disruption to our modern lives, is not something he's worried about.If the financial markets are hit hard, he'll cheer. I'm sure he'll give an even bigger cheer when the UK becomes a haven for low taxes and financial deregulation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 The main problem here is that we've backed ourselves into a corner of which there's probably very little to no chance of escape. May is a stubborn idiot, however she's far from on her own and I suppose history will confirm Cameron as the biggest clown but after that nobody is blameless. Corbyn -- leader of the opposition but with no ideas whatsoever. Hard Right Tories -- Self publicists who only care about themselves and again have no plans or alternatives should they find themselves handed power. New labour -- Hate everyone, happy to backstab their own leader, have no morals and would sell out their Granny for a wee taste of wealth and power. But again, have no plan as regards Brexit alternatives. Basically we're screwed and as everyone says it's now a case of accept a shocking deal or cut off nose to spite face. Sensible me reckons May's deal probably should be the realistic outcome given the alternatives, however Scottish Nationalist me thinks a so called hard brexit might be best in order to finally rid ourselves of this bunch of clowns............. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, renton said: It's just trying to win over a Commons majority. if May can win through with her arguments, get a lot of good press and positive polling on the back of it, she's betting a lot of her opposition will melt away. And we have seen a lot of that happening over the years - mainly because so many politicians are complete two faced barstards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Just now, ICTJohnboy said: And we have seen a lot of that happening over the years - mainly because so many politicians are complete two faced barstards. Democracy is a transaction like anything else. Locke might believe that we elect people to then act on their own conscience, but the b*****ds need to eat like everyone else and I suppose nothing focuses the mind quite like the sound of the electors scrawling an X on someone else's line on the ballot paper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Genuinely interested to see who shitebags it first: the melts in the Labour Party or the “good” Tory “rebels”. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Genuinely interested to see who shitebags it first: the melts in the Labour Party or the “good” Tory “rebels”.DUP I'd wager 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 Could definitely see enough Labour MPs using the ol' abstain option - they can still say, with something approaching a straight face, that they didn't vote in favour of May's deal. Unless Corbyn has his PLP locked down tight - and to do that he'd have to have furnished them with his alternate strategy - I can see this being May's out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 The DUP are genuine ideologues. They are arseholes but you would put your money on them standing on their principles longer than empty vessels like Chukka and Dominic Grieve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted November 27, 2018 Author Share Posted November 27, 2018 Will pass by 1 vote to 0. May Vs the abstentions. Unless off course wee weasel Gove grabs his opportunity to draw and send to big bercow for his final swansong. Popcorn time! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted November 27, 2018 Share Posted November 27, 2018 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/26/how-will-your-mp-vote-on-theresa-mays-brexit-deal I see the Guardian has a daily updated blog on how MPs will vote - at the minute it's not even close, by their reckoning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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