Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[The_Kincardine]

12 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Let me endorse that, but from another angle. I'm of an age that well remembers the UK joining the UK and all that has happened in the intervening years.
And I also well remember what the country was like at that time; a flatlining economy, a decaying industrial landscape and a much more insular society than that of today. We didn't go abroad, or at least very few of us, and our minds weren't nearly as broad as they are today.
That is, those of us who recognise that the EU of 2018 is far from perfect but who are also of a mind that you don't move house because there's a crack in the bathroom ceiling.
Be under no illusions, the EU has been a force for good for the people of the UK. No wonder our continental brethren shake their heads and quietly despair.

Half of me agrees with you and half thinks you are talking bollocks.

The bit that agrees with you:  The whole notion of Brexit is excerable and fuelled by small-minded, racist fuckwits.  That we should ease back from a continuing union with our natural allies is an embarrassing episode in our nation's history.  I'd use equally strong language to describe the dull-witted Yessers.  They and the Brexiteers are two cheeks of an insidious small-minded and very unfortunate arse.

The bit that thinks you're talking baws:  What turned Britain from 'the sick man of Europe' wasn't the EU but Oor Maggie.  Her insistence on free market economics and making the country pay its way was really what changed the economic landscape of Britain.  Talk about, "a flatlining economy, a decaying industrial landscape"?  Thatcher was the one who saved us from that. 

 

[pandarilla]

Half of me agrees with you and half thinks you are talking bollocks.
The bit that agrees with you:  The whole notion of Brexit is excerable and fuelled by small-minded, racist fuckwits.  That we should ease back from a continuing union with our natural allies is an embarrassing episode in our nation's history.  I'd use equally strong language to describe the dull-witted Yessers.  They and the Brexiteers are two cheeks of an insidious small-minded and very unfortunate arse.
The bit that thinks you're talking baws:  What turned Britain from 'the sick man of Europe' wasn't the EU but Oor Maggie.  Her insistence on free market economics and making the country pay its way was really what changed the economic landscape of Britain.  Talk about, "a flatlining economy, a decaying industrial landscape"?  Thatcher was the one who saved us from that. 
 

Jeezo.

[ICTJohnboy]

34 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Half of me agrees with you and half thinks you are talking bollocks.

The bit that agrees with you:  The whole notion of Brexit is excerable and fuelled by small-minded, racist fuckwits.  That we should ease back from a continuing union with our natural allies is an embarrassing episode in our nation's history.  I'd use equally strong language to describe the dull-witted Yessers.  They and the Brexiteers are two cheeks of an insidious small-minded and very unfortunate arse.

The bit that thinks you're talking baws:  What turned Britain from 'the sick man of Europe' wasn't the EU but Oor Maggie.  Her insistence on free market economics and making the country pay its way was really what changed the economic landscape of Britain.  Talk about, "a flatlining economy, a decaying industrial landscape"?  Thatcher was the one who saved us from that. 

 

 

Thatcher was a small-minded racist fuckwit.

[pandarilla]

And now we'll have to build up a whole new bloated bureaucracy to replicate all the standards stuff and  safety regulations we did in cooperation with Europe, never mind the double red tape for businesses who do any trading outside the UK. Even dafter than Brussels/Strasbourg.

Yeah you might be right. But it's not quite as simple as that.

 

Some stuff will just be covered by administrative organisations that already exist here.

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

You seem to be giving the EU a lot of credit for stuff here.

No shit Sherlock, and you may be about to discover why.

[BawWatchin]

59 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Half of me agrees with you and half thinks you are talking bollocks.

The bit that agrees with you:  The whole notion of Brexit is excerable and fuelled by small-minded, racist fuckwits.  That we should ease back from a continuing union with our natural allies is an embarrassing episode in our nation's history.  I'd use equally strong language to describe the dull-witted Yessers.  They and the Brexiteers are two cheeks of an insidious small-minded and very unfortunate arse.

The bit that thinks you're talking baws:  What turned Britain from 'the sick man of Europe' wasn't the EU but Oor Maggie.  Her insistence on free market economics and making the country pay its way was really what changed the economic landscape of Britain.  Talk about, "a flatlining economy, a decaying industrial landscape"?  Thatcher was the one who saved us from that. 

 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Half of me agrees with you and half thinks you are talking bollocks.
The bit that agrees with you:  The whole notion of Brexit is excerable and fuelled by small-minded, racist fuckwits.  That we should ease back from a continuing union with our natural allies is an embarrassing episode in our nation's history.  I'd use equally strong language to describe the dull-witted Yessers.  They and the Brexiteers are two cheeks of an insidious small-minded and very unfortunate arse.
The bit that thinks you're talking baws:  What turned Britain from 'the sick man of Europe' wasn't the EU but Oor Maggie.  Her insistence on free market economics and making the country pay its way was really what changed the economic landscape of Britain.  Talk about, "a flatlining economy, a decaying industrial landscape"?  Thatcher was the one who saved us from that. 
 

Thatcher did not turn the economy round but she did bury British industry, and in so doing shrank the manufacturing sector and it's associated export trade. She and her cohorts like Joseph and Ridley turned their back on medium term growth on the German model and aggressively sold off state assets whilst cheerleading asset-strippers like Lord Hanson.
Ever since the British economy has become hellishly reliant on the service sector, with financial services becoming so dominant that politicians no longer care about London becoming the money-laundering capital of Europe.
And yet, even Maggie Thatcher never quite went as far as the Brexiteers, as where the EU was concerned her bark was worse than her bite. She might have been a nasty piece of work but she wasn't daft.

[DublinMagyar]

Half of me agrees with you and half thinks you are talking bollocks.
The bit that agrees with you:  The whole notion of Brexit is excerable and fuelled by small-minded, racist fuckwits.  That we should ease back from a continuing union with our natural allies is an embarrassing episode in our nation's history.  I'd use equally strong language to describe the dull-witted Yessers.  They and the Brexiteers are two cheeks of an insidious small-minded and very unfortunate arse.
The bit that thinks you're talking baws:  What turned Britain from 'the sick man of Europe' wasn't the EU but Oor Maggie.  Her insistence on free market economics and making the country pay its way was really what changed the economic landscape of Britain.  Talk about, "a flatlining economy, a decaying industrial landscape"?  Thatcher was the one who saved us from that. 
 

Shockerooni!

[NotThePars]

4 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

I sort of find these folk who turn on a sixpence politically fascinating. Adam Tomkins, Aidan Kerr are other examples.

 

The idea of developing a world view over 20, 30, 40 years then just *completely* reversing polarity is such a bewildering concept to me.

 

 

If you were to ask them they would say some variation of "I didn't leave Labour, Labour left me."

[pandarilla]

Thatcher did not turn the economy round but she did bury British industry, and in so doing shrank the manufacturing sector and it's associated export trade. She and her cohorts like Joseph and Ridley turned their back on medium term growth on the German model and aggressively sold off state assets whilst cheerleading asset-strippers like Lord Hanson.

Ever since the British economy has become hellishly reliant on the service sector, with financial services becoming so dominant that politicians no longer care about London becoming the money-laundering capital of Europe.

And yet, even Maggie Thatcher never quite went as far as the Brexiteers, as where the EU was concerned her bark was worse than her bite. She might have been a nasty piece of work but she wasn't daft.

I agree fully on Thatcher's economic policies, but I still think you're guilty of a little post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy with the EU.

 

(Insert appropriate West wing clip)

[ICTJohnboy]

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Thatcher did not turn the economy round but she did bury British industry, and in so doing shrank the manufacturing sector and it's associated export trade. She and her cohorts like Joseph and Ridley turned their back on medium term growth on the German model and aggressively sold off state assets whilst cheerleading asset-strippers like Lord Hanson.
Ever since the British economy has become hellishly reliant on the service sector, with financial services becoming so dominant that politicians no longer care about London becoming the money-laundering capital of Europe.
And yet, even Maggie Thatcher never quite went as far as the Brexiteers, as where the EU was concerned her bark was worse than her bite. She might have been a nasty piece of work but she wasn't daft.

 

She wasn't all that far behind them in some respects. See this quote from 1978 :

Quote

But Lady Thatcher said that there were already too many people coming into Britain, according to the minutes.

She said that "with some exceptions there had been no humanitarian case for accepting 1.5 million immigrants from south Asia and elsewhere. It was essential to draw a line somewhere".

Mr Whitelaw entered the debate, suggesting to the prime minister that refugees were a different matter to immigrants in general.

He said that according to letters he had received, opinion favoured the accepting of more of the Vietnamese refugees.

Lady Thatcher responded that “in her view all those who wrote letters in this sense should be invited to accept one into their homes," the minutes disclose.

"She thought it quite wrong that immigrants should be given council housing whereas white citizens were not."

Lady Thatcher asked what the implications of such a move could be given that an exodus of the white population from Rhodesia – now Zimbabwe – was expected once majority rule was established.

She made clear, however, that she had "less objection to refugees such as Rhodesians, Poles and Hungarians, since they could more easily be assimilated into British society".

The meeting was held about 18 months after Lady Thatcher made comments in a television interview that came to be seen as a watershed in mainstream politicians’ handling of race and immigration.

“People are really rather afraid that this country might be rather swamped by people with a different culture,” she told World In Action.

“If we do not want people to go to extremes we ourselves must talk about this problem and we must show that we are prepared to deal with it,” she added. “We are not in politics to ignore people’s worries. We are in politics to deal with them.”

The comments were held responsible for a collapse in support for the National Front, which had been gathering momentum in working class communities.

 

[Cerberus]

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Half of me agrees with you and half thinks you are talking bollocks.

The bit that agrees with you:  The whole notion of Brexit is excerable and fuelled by small-minded, racist fuckwits.  That we should ease back from a continuing union with our natural allies is an embarrassing episode in our nation's history.  I'd use equally strong language to describe the dull-witted Yessers.  They and the Brexiteers are two cheeks of an insidious small-minded and very unfortunate arse.

The bit that thinks you're talking baws:  What turned Britain from 'the sick man of Europe' wasn't the EU but Oor Maggie.  Her insistence on free market economics and making the country pay its way was really what changed the economic landscape of Britain.  Talk about, "a flatlining economy, a decaying industrial landscape"?  Thatcher was the one who saved us from that. 

 

 

[RedRob72]

Arlene Foster is right; had to happen sometime I suppose.  After two years of wasted negotiations Theresa is going to waste a further two weeks trying to sell something that no one is buying. As an aside the BBC has lost all pretence of impartiality and is now a government mouthpiece. 

 

However this pans out, there has to be an adjustment on the exit deal on the issue of the U.K/ROI border, for the simple reason that it’s the only land border between the U.K. and the EU. Of course it’s going to require a different arrangement on geography alone. Big Arlene isn’t doing herself or the DUP any favours here. As with the rest of the protagonists on the Leave side, she’s demanding a better deal, but can’t really articulate or illustrate what that ‘better deal’ looks like and more importantly how it can be secured with the EU.

If the deal is voted down, which looks increasingly likely, where then Arlene?

The Belfast Telegraph (admittedly a generally Pro-Union paper) ran a recent poll on the deal which returned a 70-30% against the deal. I genuinely don’t understand it. The EU is by far our (The UK’s) biggest trading partner, why on earth would we consider leaving. If the DUP maintain that their primary concern is to remain part of the U.K., they’ve got a strange way of showing it.

A hard Brexit will destroy the U.K. in the long term and give unprecedented leverage to Nationalists and Republicans in Northern Ireland in their pursuit of unification.

Crack on Arlene, if that’s what you want, I’m fed up with listening to you.

 

 

[Detournement]

7 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

 hard Brexit will destroy the U.K. in the long term and give unprecedented leverage to Nationalists and Republicans in Northern Ireland in their pursuit of unification.

 

 

In what way?

The two main factors that genuinely drive unionism won't change. (i) The fact that the protestant community vehemently doesn't want to become a minority in ROI (ii) ROI can't afford the economic costs of unification.

[Granny Danger]

7 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

However this pans out, there has to be an adjustment on the exit deal on the issue of the U.K/ROI border, for the simple reason that it’s the only land border between the U.K. and the EU. Of course it’s going to require a different arrangement on geography alone. Big Arlene isn’t doing herself or the DUP any favours here. As with the rest of the protagonists on the Leave side, she’s demanding a better deal, but can’t really articulate or illustrate what that ‘better deal’ looks like and more importantly how it can be secured with the EU.

If the deal is voted down, which looks increasingly likely, where then Arlene?

The Belfast Telegraph (admittedly a generally Pro-Union paper) ran a recent poll on the deal which returned a 70-30% against the deal. I genuinely don’t understand it. The EU is by far our (The UK’s) biggest trading partner, why on earth would we consider leaving. If the DUP maintain that their primary concern is to remain part of the U.K., they’ve got a strange way of showing it.

A hard Brexit will destroy the U.K. in the long term and give unprecedented leverage to Nationalists and Republicans in Northern Ireland in their pursuit of unification.

Crack on Arlene, if that’s what you want, I’m fed up with listening to you.

 

 

Maybe if the Brexiteers hadn’t lied about this from Day 1 then they might have had some credibility.

It’s either a variation on the Single Market/Customs Union (could be EEA membership) or it’s a hard border.  Everyone knew that but most just lied about it.

 

[Granny Danger]

Hammond admitting that ANY Brexit option will hurt the U.K. economy; also saying the government will ignore theCommons vote on publishing legal advice.

I wonder what the legal implications of that decision is.  Hopefully the Cabinet get thrown into prison.

 

[Ross.]

21 hours ago, Savage Henry said:

She's off to Peterhead, then?  

Scouting the place before threatening half her party with it if they vote against her Brexit plan. She'll know exactly who is worth the watching after her time as Home Secretary and some of they stuff they dealt with relating to Yewtree and the like.

[GiGi]

42 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Hammond admitting that ANY Brexit option will hurt the U.K. economy; also saying the government will ignore theCommons vote on publishing legal advice.

I wonder what the legal implications of that decision is.  Hopefully the Cabinet get thrown into prison.

 

Comment number 38 on the BBC bigots HYS: 

There's more to life than money

Keep Britain British!

 

These people will risk ruin to themselves, their families, friends and communities just to feel like they were right. Fucking imbeciles. Bullshit excuse after bullshit excuse for every negative that brexit will bring.

[Granny Danger]

19 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Comment number 38 on the BBC bigots HYS: 

There's more to life than money

Keep Britain British!

 

These people will risk ruin to themselves, their families, friends and communities just to feel like they were right. Fucking imbeciles. Bullshit excuse after bullshit excuse for every negative that brexit will bring.

And a large number of MPs would be happy to follow through with this madness rather than admit the whole thing is a huge mistake.