Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Aye but where will they come from? I assume you don't think there's a big pool of lazy dole scroungers about waiting for a better offer?

I don't think there are loads of lazy dole scroungers. I think there are loads of people who can assess whether it's worth taking a job or not.

If the wages and conditions are right the jobs will be filled no problems. Unskilled jobs offshore are like gold dust because the wages are good.

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I don't think there are loads of lazy dole scroungers. I think there are loads of people who can assess whether it's worth taking a job or not.

If the wages and conditions are right the jobs will be filled no problems. Unskilled jobs offshore are like gold dust because the wages are good.

Again, where will this new pool of workers come from? You think there are stacks of people on the dole who can't be arsed working on minimum wage?

Edited December 19, 2018 by welshbairn

[DeeTillEhDeh]

H_B's Tooting Popular Front persona is fooling no-one.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Again, where will this new pool of workers come from?

In there somewhere:

[Guest Jedi]

And of course the fact remains that the vast majority of immigration to the UK comes from outside the EU....non-EU net migration is 248,000 a year at the moment-the highest recorded since 2004. It has also been higher than EU net migration for decades. So, yet again either ending freedom of movement from the EU or placing greater restrictions on it would make little difference. But of course when we are operating under the magic WTO rules that should sort out the non-EU migration...oh wait...

[beefybake]

50 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

Aye, by school kids mostly.

And the school kids never went back.

As a 16 year old (1968) I lifted potatoes for a couple of weeks one summer in the Galloway hills. The work backbreaking, but actually, for

an unskilled kid, not too badly paid.  

As a 17 year old, In Somerset, picking peas.  Not physically strenuous, just tedious.  My brother and I worked for one day. Looked at what we'd earned

for a solid day's work. Paltry. We never went back. A couple of weeks later I got a summer job labouring in a paper mill.  A reasonably decent pay for an honest day's work.

Fast forward to 2001. I did a day of strawberry picking in Sussex.   Worked from 9am to 3.30 under a boiling summer sun.

I earned £5.60..      Most of the others there appeared to be from East Europe, plus a couple of Chinese women.  One of the Chinese women earned, I think, £42.

She was a blur to watch.  The very best of the rest probably earned half that. 

 

All these people who go on about.....  too many of em here etc.....    get your arses out and do some agricultural work,

and find out what it's actually like. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by beefybake

[Billy Jean King]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Whit? Are you drinking again?

All i'm saying is that expanding the labour force to include people from countries with significantly lower wages and cost of living has massively disadvantaged British workers.

It's pretty obvious why it suits an employer to hire a 25 year old single Pole rather than a married 40 year old British woman with kids.

 

Yes remember the queues of young Brits at the fruit farms on the eve of the harvest, ah the good times. 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Hey, this is all getting a bit heavy. To lighter matters....how are your local preparations going for the upcoming Festival Of Britain ?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

When the NHS was set up in 1948, it was partly because enlightened people on both sides of the political spectrum considered it the right way to go.
The main obstacle was getting the doctors to agree.  In the end they were more or less bought off to persuade them in. 
Today, if I recall correctly, the average for a full time bog standard GP is about £100,000 a year.   
As an aside....
My brother in law, now long retired,  qualified as a dentist in 1967. He always earned a very healthy living from then on.
He did private patients  and NHS patients.  It was all just what came with the job.
In the early 1990's when the Tory government made changes to the way dental treatment would  be paid for......
ie,  they reduced what they would pay to dentists for treatment on the NHS...,
my brother in law was astonished at how many of the younger dentists coming  through really welcomed the chance to ditch the less profitable NHS patients. 
 
Today, where I live there are 4 dentists in a radius of 10 miles.  
Precisely 1 of them accepts NHS patients.   It took years for me to move from their waiting list and be accepted as a patient.
I have few illusions about the self-serving attitudes of some of those in the medical professions. 
 
 

My wife is a GP and earns no where near £100k.

[beefybake]

4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

My wife is a GP and earns no where near £100k.

Googled...

People also ask

How much does a GP get paid?

The average GP earns an average salary of £90,000, but doctors can earn more by linking up surgeries, making record earnings by managing tens of thousands of patients. Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than£200,000 a year in 2015/16.29 Dec 2017

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

My wife is a GP and earns no where near £100k.

 

7 minutes ago, beefybake said:

 Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than£200,000 a year in 2015/16.29 Dec 2017

Your wife should step up a bit m8. It's not fair on you. Get her to upsell after seeing a patient. "Is your nose a bit squint btw?".

Edited December 19, 2018 by welshbairn

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Marx wrote about the effect of the surplus population of workers of workers 150 years ago. The First International ensured that migrant labourers didn't undercut wages and break strikes. The history of the labour movement has been about protecting wages and conditions. It is impossible to increase wages and improve conditions with a completely elastic labour supply. That's not a speculation or a theory it's the observable country we are living in with the longest period of wage stagnation for 200 years, the lowest level of strikes since 1893, massive numbers of zero hour contracts and the advent of the gig economy.
The workers movement has never been about fighting for the rights of people to do whatever they want. It's about organising labour to strengthen the position of the working class and using that strength to create a fairer society and world for everyone.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Googled...

People also ask

How much does a GP get paid? The average GP earns an average salary of £90,000, but doctors can earn more by linking up surgeries, making record earnings by managing tens of thousands of patients. Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than£200,000 a year in 2015/16.29 Dec 2017

Thats 10k short of the 100k you suggested earlier. However that sort of money you have to be a partner in a larger surgery. Id argue that those ‘super gp’s’ are likely to be in the south east of England as I know some there who do earn larger sums. However for your average GP in Scotland the salary is closer to £60k per year, which isnt rubbish money. Yes the 90/100k does happen but to achieve that you’ve got to do a lot of additional work. Its not just turn up mon-fri 9-5, you have to work additional hours (the high earners I know tend to do 0730-1830/1900 and out of hours shifts like nightshifts at weekends), extra responsibilities (some take on ward duties at cottage hospitals or psychiatric wards, old folks homes etc) taking the strain off hospital doctors. So yes its achievable but its not just the same as getting 100k for turning up at the surgery 9-5 5 days a week. Regardless they do make a decent wage but there is quite lazy assumptions that they somehow get overpaid or don’t do very much when thats certainly not the case.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

H_B picking an argument over the NHS with someone who works within it and has probably forgotten more than he will ever know has been quite amusing tbf.

[NotThePars]

Detournement/ H_B is just parroting Angela Nagle who badly misread Marx. Marx criticised the cheap importation of labour to undercut local labour but the solution offered, and that adopted by real comrades, is to strengthen incoming labour’s ties to domestic workers and help them to unionise together in solidarity. Not this nativist shite.

[Granny Danger]

33 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

Hey, this is all getting a bit heavy. To lighter matters....how are your local preparations going for the upcoming Festival Of Britain ?

Stockpiling tinned food, medicine, water and weapons.  It’s the only sensible approach.

 

 

 

oh, and large quantities of alcohol.

 

[beefybake]

16 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Thats 10k short of the 100k you suggested earlier. However that sort of money you have to be a partner in a larger surgery. Id argue that those ‘super gp’s’ are likely to be in the south east of England as I know some there who do earn larger sums. However for your average GP in Scotland the salary is closer to £60k per year, which isnt rubbish money. Yes the 90/100k does happen but to achieve that you’ve got to do a lot of additional work. Its not just turn up mon-fri 9-5, you have to work additional hours (the high earners I know tend to do 0730-1830/1900 and out of hours shifts like nightshifts at weekends), extra responsibilities (some take on ward duties at cottage hospitals or psychiatric wards, old folks homes etc) taking the strain off hospital doctors. So yes its achievable but its not just the same as getting 100k for turning up at the surgery 9-5 5 days a week. Regardless they do make a decent wage but there is quite lazy assumptions that they somehow get overpaid or don’t do very much when thats certainly not the case.

TBF, it rather looks like your missus is showing up at 10.30 on account of it's a weekday.  Has a long lunch because she deserves it. 

And then knocks off at 4 because it's been a long day. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

TBF, it rather looks like your missus is showing up at 10.30 on account of it's a weekday.  Has a long lunch because she deserves it. 
And then knocks off at 4 because it's been a long day. 

Im not really sure you know what you’re trying to say here. Dont get me wrong its nice you’re trying but its not clear.
Just fyi, my wife only take a half hour lunch break, which she normally fills with a sandwich at her desk. If you fancy giving it a go and seeing for yourself id suggest you go and spend 6 years at uni (she intercalated a degree in pharmacology) and another 6 years training when you’ve qualified working 100 hour weeks and 18 hour nightshifts (of which you’re only being paid for 10hours). Im not saying that GP’s aren’t well paid but your assertion that they are somehow lazy and spend their days dancing with unicorns and eating scones on a 5 hour lunch break is madness. In fact even during her maternity leave she has been required to continue studying to ensure her knowledge is up to date, many of these courses she has to pay for herself and doesnt get the money back for.
I’d wager that the half hour you spent googling GP’s salaries then punching your fists off the keyboard on P&B could have been better spent googling ‘how to not be an ignorant c**t’.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, beefybake said:

TBF, it rather looks like your missus is showing up at 10.30 on account of it's a weekday.  Has a long lunch because she deserves it. 

And then knocks off at 4 because it's been a long day. 

 Tbf I think ICR's wife's story isn't far off the average GP. Our GP hasn't been seen at the clinic for years because he spends his time at conferences and stuff. Bet the c**t earns a fortune.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

 Tbf I think ICR's wife's story isn't far off the average GP. Our GP hasn't been seen at the clinic for years because he spends his time at conferences and stuff. Bet the c**t earns a fortune.

Oh there are some absolute horror stories, I know of evangelical christian GP’s who have tried to prescribe jesus to sick people etc. Then there are ones who earn the 100k but do so by working 5 0800-1900 days mon-fri with out of hours shifts say 1900-0000hrs then work both days at the weekend before repeating, that surely can’t be safe, but the NHS is so stretched that its tolerated.
Some of the more old school gp’s had great tie ins with drug reps and would get the ‘conference in Orlando’ paid for but nowadays (and quite rightly) they aren’t allowed such perks, the most they may get is a free lunch (an M&Ssandwich usually, but given that involves sitting through a business pitch from a drug rep not many bother with it). Unfortunately these people seem to have ruined it for everyone.