Billy Rubin Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: So not at all concerned about Parliamentary process then. Stop misrepresenting me, and put away the crystal ball. We should understand the route towards a 2nd vote, and that's via the ballot box. It's disappointing Nicola Sturgeon is talking about a 2nd brexit vote after explaining (correctly) why the electorate deserve a 2nd Scottish Independence referendum. It's the absolute inconsistency of brexit warriors that voted yes is annoying/funny to anyone with a passing interest in politics. Edited December 27, 2018 by Billy Rubin -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, Billy Rubin said: Stop misrepresenting me, and put away the crystal ball. We should understand the route towards a 2nd vote, and that's via the ballot box. It's disappointing Nicola Sturgeon is talking about a 2nd brexit vote after explaining (correctly) why the electorate deserve a 2nd Scottish Independence referendum. It's the absolute inconsistency of brexit warriors that voted yes is annoying/funny to anyone with a passing interest in politics. You're definitely not helping your chances in the Pie & Bovril 'explaining yourself in a consistent and coherent manner' rankings. I've also spotted that you have engaged with Olexander (Lichtie4Life) on at least 2 occasions in your 47 posts. Hi Donny! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Poor from PB here. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Rubin Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: You're definitely not helping your chances in the Pie & Bovril 'explaining yourself in a consistent and coherent manner' rankings. I've also spotted that you have engaged with Olexander (Lichtie4Life) on at least 2 occasions in your 47 posts. Hi Donny! I've been and will remain clear and concise in everything I post about this. You'll need to explain why you feel there needs to be a 2nd referendum to endorse the democratic vote on Brexit, but not the 2014 Scottish independence referendum? We voted Leave without any real idea what would happen to the UK if we voted remain, and the more Macron talks the more the idea 'remain' was the tried and tested option becomes a fallacy. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Billy Rubin said: I've been and will remain clear and concise in everything I post about this. You'll need to explain why you feel there needs to be a 2nd referendum to endorse the democratic vote on Brexit, but not the 2014 Scottish independence referendum? We voted Leave without any real idea what would happen to the UK if we voted remain, and the more Macron talks the more the idea 'remain' was the tried and tested option becomes a fallacy. You're all over the place here. Suffice to say that my consistent view has always been that we need a rerun of the 2014 referendum. All the SNP manifesto conditions have been met, and the mandate in the Scottish Parliament is there. If Indy2 ref is won, then after independence all voters in Scotland should be consulted on whether we should be members of the EU. Personally, I don't believe that we would have a problem in being accepted for membership , and would vote for an indy Scotland becoming (or preferably remaining) a memeber of the EU. I'm pretty sure that these views would be considered to be democratic in any grown-up debate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Rubin Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 minute ago, lichtgilphead said: You're all over the place here. Suffice to say that my consistent view has always been that we need a rerun of the 2014 referendum. All the SNP manifesto conditions have been met, and the mandate in the Scottish Parliament is there. If Indy2 ref is won, then after independence all voters in Scotland should be consulted on whether we should be members of the EU. Personally, I don't believe that we would have a problem in being accepted for membership , and would vote for an indy Scotland becoming (or preferably remaining) a memeber of the EU. I'm pretty sure that these views would be considered to be democratic in any grown-up debate? Yes, and I'm glad your views shows you agree with what I said about Scottish democracy, and my views on why there needs the be a 2nd indy ref. My position is obviously repeats and is absolutely measured. Can you explain again why you don't think the result to the 2016 referendum should stand, but you accepted the 2014 ref result? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Billy Rubin said: Yes, and I'm glad your views shows you agree with what I said about Scottish democracy, and my views on why there needs the be a 2nd indy ref. My position is obviously repeats and is absolutely measured. Can you explain again why you don't think the result to the 2016 referendum should stand, but you accepted the 2014 ref result? ???? Do you have a comprehension problem? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 I'd be happy with a rerun of both the 2014 and 2016 referenda if either side accepted that cycle lanes should be compulsory and not just a whimsical choice for dangerous and suicidal road encroachers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Rubin Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 minute ago, lichtgilphead said: ???? Do you have a comprehension problem? Twisting things because their labeled at you isn't a sound policy. I voted Yes/ Remain and I'd vote the same way again tomorrow and probably always. I respected the result of the No vote and voted a for a re-run by endorsing the SNP's 2015 manifesto. I hope and trust we'll get a 2nd referendum in 2019/20/21. What I cannot do this is disrespect the 2016 Brexit result and the process that led to the vote. Anyone asking for a 2nd vote without the normal legislative consent is absolutely all over the place. Calm, consistence voices will the day. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Any noise about the failing with FPTP or the travel between a white/green paper to royal assent is completely irrelevant to the fact that brexit was a democratic decision by the UK electorate. It would have been equally poor if Yes Scotland suggested they'd won the 2014 vote, and thankfully they didn't. Parliamentary process is sacrosanct and the UK must Brexit and idiots suggesting we didn't know what we voted for must be muted. 'Must be muted' has a wonderful Orwellian ring to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Is it a fair democratic process when the winning side has been found to have broken the laws created by our ‘democracy’? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 34 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Is it a fair democratic process when the winning side has been found to have broken the laws created by our ‘democracy’? No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Billy Rubin said: Any noise about the failing with FPTP or the travel between a white/green paper to royal assent is completely irrelevant to the fact that Brexit was a democratic decision by the UK electorate. It would have been equally poor if Yes Scotland suggested they'd won the 2014 vote, and thankfully they didn't. Parliamentary process is sacrosanct and the UK must Brexit and idiots suggesting we didn't know what we voted for must be muted. I think people should stop saying "we" as if everybody who voted the same way on anything did so for the same reasons. Some people voted Leave because they believed it would mean more money for the NHS. Maybe not you - but they did. People were told it would be the easiest deal in the world and some people believed that. The impression was given that it would all be straightforward and you would hardly know the difference. In that case, if membership hardly affects things then why bother with it. Some people only made their decision in the polling booth and decided to vote Leave. They weren't angry, outraged or furious with anyone. They simply decided on balance that we might as well Leave. Some people voted Leave as a protest vote. Some people voted Leave because they don't like austerity. Some people voted Leave to have a go at David Cameron and George Osborne. Given the complete absence of any workable plan, it seems ridiculous. It is like deciding to sell your house, and after two years looking for a new house and failing to find one, you still want to stick by your original decision to sell your house. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, Fullerene said: I think people should stop saying "we" as if everybody who voted the same way on anything did so for the same reasons. Some people voted Leave because they believed it would mean more money for the NHS. Maybe not you - but they did. People were told it would be the easiest deal in the world and some people believed that. The impression was given that it would all be straightforward and you would hardly know the difference. In that case, if membership hardly affects things then why bother with it. Some people only made their decision in the polling booth and decided to vote Leave. They weren't angry, outraged or furious with anyone. They simply decided on balance that we might as well Leave. Some people voted Leave as a protest vote. Some people voted Leave because they don't like austerity. Some people voted Leave to have a go at David Cameron and George Osborne. Given the complete absence of any workable plan, it seems ridiculous. It is like deciding to sell your house, and after two years looking for a new house and failing to find one, you still want to stick by your original decision to sell your house and live in a shoebox in the middle of the motorway. FTFY 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: It is like deciding to sell your house, and after two years looking for a new house and failing to find one, you still want to stick by your original decision to sell your house and live in a shoebox in middle of motorway FTFY We use to dream about living in a shoebox. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, Fullerene said: We use to dream about living in a shoebox. We will all be living the dream soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falkirkthebigclub Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 11 hours ago, Billy Rubin said: I believe the UK has to exit, afterwards we can - if we wish - vote for parties like the Lib Dems - that wish to rejoin the EU. It's a democratic fail if the result isn't respected. We're sheltered in Scotland towards the brexit hate from sections of England. Non-allowance of brexit to happen may well lead to martial control. ^^Borislav Rubinov imo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Fullerene said: I think people should stop saying "we" as if everybody who voted the same way on anything did so for the same reasons. Some people voted Leave because they believed it would mean more money for the NHS. Maybe not you - but they did. People were told it would be the easiest deal in the world and some people believed that. The impression was given that it would all be straightforward and you would hardly know the difference. In that case, if membership hardly affects things then why bother with it. Some people only made their decision in the polling booth and decided to vote Leave. They weren't angry, outraged or furious with anyone. They simply decided on balance that we might as well Leave. Some people voted Leave as a protest vote. Some people voted Leave because they don't like austerity. Some people voted Leave to have a go at David Cameron and George Osborne. Given the complete absence of any workable plan, it seems ridiculous. It is like deciding to sell your house, and after two years looking for a new house and failing to find one, you still want to stick by your original decision to sell your house. Strangely you haven't cited immigration as a possible reason for voting Leave. As I'm now living in an area in which a substantial majority voted to leave, I'm painfully aware that immigration was the most important consideration for many in these parts. There's a kind of an undercurrent, or even a deep seated belief that EU immigrants, or in fact any immigrants, get everything from help with housing, to health and/or unemployment benefits handed to them on a plate. These beliefs seem to have their roots in pubs, clubs, workplaces and football matches, where racism is particularly rife. Sadly I don't think many around here are influenced by any of the many discussion/debate programmes currently raging throughout the media. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) Don't know enough about state aid rules to know if Corbyn is as clueless about it as this guy makes out. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/27/four-reasons-jeremy-corbyn-wrong-eu-state-aid Edited December 27, 2018 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Strangely you haven't cited immigration as a possible reason for voting Leave. As I'm now living in an area in which a substantial majority voted to leave, I'm painfully aware that immigration was the most important consideration for many in these parts. There's a kind of an undercurrent, or even a deep seated belief that EU immigrants, or in fact any immigrants, get everything from help with housing, to health and/or unemployment benefits handed to them on a plate. These beliefs seem to have their roots in pubs, clubs, workplaces and football matches, where racism is particularly rife. Sadly I don't think many around here are influenced by any of the many discussion/debate programmes currently raging throughout the media. You are right but I was listing reasons that might not be applicable now. I think there are plenty of people who just don't like foreigners - let alone immigrants. They are probably furious that cheap flights and a drop in the pound encourages tourists to come here. The irony is that it will still be easy for people to visit here but a poor exchange rate and long queues in the blue passport lane will make it more difficult for us to go to Europe. Q.: What do you call a tourist in Burnley? A.: Lost Edited December 27, 2018 by Fullerene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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