Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[DrewDon]

Didn't know Lord Adonis was on P&B. 

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

3 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

If Corbyn really wanted the keys to number 10, he sack this whole Brexit farce and declare that “if we win, we in the Labour Party will support the retraction of A50 and remain in the EU’’. I think he’d win with a small majority but could then request the support of both the SNP and the LibDems to offer their broad support at Westminster. He might have to lose one of two of more dangerous and unelectable members of his current shadow cabinet. But honestly think he’d have a better chance of ousting the Tories following the above position.

The SNP for support? Let's hope not.

[RedRob72]

The SNP for support? Let's hope not.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t personally wish to see that scenario unfold, but if Labour led a complete about turn on Brexit, I reckon that would see them in Government. They wouldn’t do it on the promise of a formal coalition with the SNP (the English voters won’t buy that), but they could ask for their support in the event of a minority win in the next GE to wrestle control. If Corbyn is unable to change his stance on leaving the EU, they’ll need to replace him. Surely most punters can now see how ineffective he’s been, during the pantomime at WM over the last 2 years?

[Colkitto]

7 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

If Corbyn really wanted the keys to number 10, he’d sack this whole Brexit farce and declare that “if we win, we in the Labour Party will support the retraction of A50 and remain in the EU’’. I think he’d win with a small majority but could then request the support of both the SNP and the LibDems to offer their broad support at Westminster. He might have to lose one of two of more dangerous and unelectable members of his current shadow cabinet. But honestly think he’d have a better chance of ousting the Tories following the above position.

 

As mentioned he himself wants Brexit and I believe quite a size-able portion the the English do as well. 

Supporting Brexit in England will win you votes and lose you votes in a similar way rejecting Brexit will 

[O'Kelly Isley III]

The SNP for support? Let's hope not.

You should read Kevin McKenna's article in last Saturday's Herald. You'll maybe recognise yourself as one of the Scottish Labour types whose consuming hatred of the SNP has utterly blinded them to the disintegration of their own party and it's increasing irrelevance to this nation's needs.

But maybe snide remarks is the way forward - what do I know ?

[Granny Danger]

25 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

As mentioned he himself wants Brexit and I believe quite a size-able portion the the English do as well. 

Supporting Brexit in England will win you votes and lose you votes in a similar way rejecting Brexit will 

There are still millions who support Brexit but the tide has turned towards Remain; I haven’t seen a single indicator that suggests otherwise.  Have you?

 

[mike rankine]

I don't quite get the argument that the Tories would be 100% blamed for the economic disaster of a hard brexit, and therefore be out of power for the foreseeable future.

Firstly, the Tories would blame the other parties for not backing May's deal. Albeit seriously flawed, it would have avoided a truly hard brexit.

Secondly, political parties worldwide are adept at passing the buck. Obama inherited the mess of the financial crisis, which was predominantly caused by the loose regulations introduced under Republican administrations, yet some on the USA right blamed him for the downturn.

The Tories still cast up the financial mess left by Labour, even though it was a worldwide crisis and Brown/Darling seemingly minimised the damage via their actions. The financial deregulation which was a root cause started under Thatcher and continued under Major and Blair.

In a nutshell, often it's the ones in power when the music stops who end up with most of the blame. Those who came before and actually caused it frequently escape the brunt of criticism.

I could see a Labour government within the next few years having to deal with the consequences of a hard Brexit and ultimately getting blamed for the economic crisis. The Tories would then return to power...as they always do.[emoji849]

[Colkitto]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

There are still millions who support Brexit but the tide has turned towards Remain; I haven’t seen a single indicator that suggests otherwise.  Have you?

 

The tide seems to have turned towards remain I agree, but there are votes to be lost by rejecting Brexit in England and that's where the election will be won or lost. 

[jamamafegan]

Brexit? What Brexit? All I can see in the news are stories about a drone which may not actually exist. Funny that eh?

[ICTJohnboy]

26 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

The tide seems to have turned towards remain I agree, but there are votes to be lost by rejecting Brexit in England and that's where the election will be won or lost. 

 

Which is what makes the case for an independent Scotland very hard to resist.

[NotThePars]

As mentioned he himself wants Brexit and I believe quite a size-able portion the the English do as well. 
Supporting Brexit in England will win you votes and lose you votes in a similar way rejecting Brexit will 

It’s staggering that this needs to be said but I guess loads of ardent Remainers still believe in a magical quick fire solution to stop Brexit.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

1 hour ago, jamamafegan said:

Brexit? What Brexit? All I can see in the news are stories about a drone which may not actually exist. Funny that eh?

What if Brexit is a drone?

[NotThePars]

What if Brexit is a drone?

Or the friends we made along the way.

[RedRob72]

The tide seems to have turned towards remain I agree, but there are votes to be lost by rejecting Brexit in England and that's where the election will be won or lost. 

Labour may well lose some seats in their Brexit strongholds of the North of England for example, but reckon they would pick up a higher number of people now veering to remain if they backed an unequivocal withdrawal of A50. Yes it would be a calculated gamble but what have they got to lose? Being in same hopeless position as now?
At least they would have a legitimate claim to having done everything possible to get us out of this mess. Corbyn will be just as complicit as May if he continues to support this economic suicide and the implications it will most certainly have for our European trading neighbours.
There is a 3rd way, which is to remain in the EU. if they really want to form the next government they should take this opportunity as a means of securing that.

[Jacksgranda]

13 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

Unlike the Labour Party?

If there is a general election, someone is going to have to form the government. Maybe they're both angling to lose, so the other one has to carry the can for the resulting mess.

[Jacksgranda]

3 hours ago, Colkitto said:

As mentioned he himself wants Brexit and I believe quite a size-able portion the the English do as well. 

Supporting Brexit in England will win you votes and lose you votes in a similar way rejecting Brexit will 

All that needs to be done is mobilise those who didn't bother their arse voting the last time.

3 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

There are still millions who support Brexit but the tide has turned towards Remain; I haven’t seen a single indicator that suggests otherwise.  Have you?

 

I think you're right G D, this calls for politicians with courage and vision, so we're f*****, quite frankly.

[welshbairn]

There isn't going to be a GE till 2022. A load of Tories would have to vote for it and with Corbyn offering nothing different from May on Brexit, why would they? You'd need a new  temporary pro EU coalition party to form to make it happen.

Edited December 24, 2018 by welshbairn

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, mike rankine said:

I don't quite get the argument that the Tories would be 100% blamed for the economic disaster of a hard brexit, and therefore be out of power for the foreseeable future.

Firstly, the Tories would blame the other parties for not backing May's deal. Albeit seriously flawed, it would have avoided a truly hard brexit.

Secondly, political parties worldwide are adept at passing the buck. Obama inherited the mess of the financial crisis, which was predominantly caused by the loose regulations introduced under Republican administrations, yet some on the USA right blamed him for the downturn.

The Tories still cast up the financial mess left by Labour, even though it was a worldwide crisis and Brown/Darling seemingly minimised the damage via their actions. The financial deregulation which was a root cause started under Thatcher and continued under Major and Blair.

In a nutshell, often it's the ones in power when the music stops who end up with most of the blame. Those who came before and actually caused it frequently escape the brunt of criticism.

I could see a Labour government within the next few years having to deal with the consequences of a hard Brexit and ultimately getting blamed for the economic crisis. The Tories would then return to power...as they always do.

Correct. And the fact that those in power always blame those that were in power before them just slides off the electorate's back, we've heard it so many times (although sometimes it's true).

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

There isn't going to be a GE till 2012. A load of Tories would have to vote for it and with Corbyn offering nothing different from May on Brexit, why would they? You'd need a new  temporary pro EU coalition party to form to make it happen.

Back to the future,wb...

[John Lambies Doos]

Scrap brexit now, revoke A50 and let's enjoy Christmas