Buddies v Sons 5/11/16

[Jan Vojáček]

8 hours ago, cedrick1 said:

My god what do sons fans want . I thought similar to what most have said about today's game but in a positive sense. Darren Barr had best game of season and those who say can't play with buccy should watch how they tamed John Sutton after 10 minute run around . 

We only had Gary Fleming header . What about Stanton run and shot so we can dismiss that post . 

I would prefer when goin forward we didn't stop and turn back(joe Thomson , andy Stirling . 

We don't win we criticise. We win we criticise . 

I thought overall today we deserved a win . One off bar was my only real concern in game . Oh and all my criticism of davie smith are fading at the moment , another good game 

Barr and Buchanan still can't play together. Individually they played well yesterday, but (as demonstrated perfectly by the time when Barr didn't know whether to stick or twist with the ball across the box) they aren't working as a unit. One good game against a dire St Mirren side doesn't disprove what I've been saying for the best part of a year now.

I'd expect every goalkeeper in this league to save the Stanton shot. It's reasonable enough, but not pacey and at a nice height.

I don't think it is criticism, it's realism. Today (and Stevie admitted it post match) we put in a performance that was worse than many of our other away performances over the last year. The difference was that we got a bit of luck - in the Hardie shot that hit the bar, the Barr red card and the Langfield mistake. That was probably deserved though, because we deserved 3 points at Cappielow in August - when a lack of communication between referee and linesman cost us, and a point at Tannadice where Cammy Bell was pulling out all sorts of incredible saves.

Defensively we were very good today, it was backs to the wall stuff, but every player threw themselves at the ball to keep it out - and that fighting attitude was the main positive for me. The fact that Gaz spent much of the game totally isolated upfront, and the fact we barely kept the ball for more than 3 consecutive passes was hugely concerning...except it wasn't, because it's what we've done at every other away game since December last year.

If we put in that standard of performance at any other venue in the league 9 times out of 10 we would leave with a (relatively comfortable) defeat. Yesterday we got a bit of luck, and you know what? It was mighty enjoyable to finally see us winning a game - never mind an away game!

Of course we should be delighted with a victory. But a scrappy 1-0 win over a side marooned at the foot of the table isn't proof that Stevie's been right and our concerns have been wrong all this time. Far from it.

Good highlights as always @mairdrink - what a guy Garry Fleming is  I hope we see him at the club for many years to come, we need a local talisman.

[Boghead ranter]

"So if we both go and stand at the touchline, and I'll point, then we might fool the Sons fans into thinking we have a clue about tactics...."

[Jan Vojáček]

17 minutes ago, Boghead ranter said:

"So if we both go and stand at the touchline, and I'll point, then we might fool the Sons fans into thinking we have a clue about tactics...."

"Aye, him there. Naw, him, aye the one in the bodywarmer. Aye that's that Sonsteam of 08. See the one over there, naw, naw, aye him. Stood next to the guy with the beard. Aye that's BBPF. Right, see..."

[aftershocker]

Guys.....can we try and be a wee bit more postive

At the start of the season we were clear relegation favourites, and at this point we are sitting clear of the relegation zone....did you honestly expect us to be battling out for promotion

Our budget is clearly considerably lower than our opponents and this shows. This doesn't mean we don't have good footballers.....we clearly do....but it does mean every single game this season will be a battle with backs to the wall at times

We don't have a recognised 20 goal a season striker....I'm pretty sure the budget will not stretch to than. St Mirren do....and we've just taken 3 points off them

To imply that we're not good at defending and that Barr and Buchanan can't play together seems to fly in the face of the facts....other than a poor performance against Ayr....we have been in every game....that would seem to me to be Stevie's tactics this season, and our defense is certainly an improvement on recent years

For all St Mirrens pressure, Martin didn't have any other than fairly routine saves to make....the late underside of the bar was the closest effort all day

So....job well done

[1320Lichtie]

That's amazin. I soon as it came up you just knew what he was going to do. Only one Clangers.

[lorenzo71]

We have good players but we play in a very negative defensive style and can't seem to hold onto the ball for more than 3 or 4 passes.We hoof the ball hopefully up the park hoping someone can run onto it.If we had a change of tactics we might actually win more.Under murray it was boom or bust...either we won or got beat heavily.It was good to watch and we always got enough wins to see us clear.Stevie wants to avoid a thumping and holds on to dear life for a draw.Draws wont keep us up but wins will.Yesterday we got lucky and that won't unfortuneately happen very often.

[Jan Vojáček]

8 minutes ago, aftershocker said:

Guys.....can we try and be a wee bit more postive

At the start of the season we were clear relegation favourites, and at this point we are sitting clear of the relegation zone....did you honestly expect us to be battling out for promotion

Our budget is clearly considerably lower than our opponents and this shows. This doesn't mean we don't have good footballers.....we clearly do....but it does mean every single game this season will be a battle with backs to the wall at times

We don't have a recognised 20 goal a season striker....I'm pretty sure the budget will not stretch to than. St Mirren do....and we've just taken 3 points off them

To imply that we're not good at defending and that Barr and Buchanan can't play together seems to fly in the face of the facts....other than a poor performance against Ayr....we have been in every game....that would seem to me to be Stevie's tactics this season, and our defense is certainly an improvement on recent years

For all St Mirrens pressure, Martin didn't have any other than fairly routine saves to make....the late underside of the bar was the closest effort all day

So....job well done

 

2 different things. We're fine defensively - a lot better with Smith at RB - but Barr and Buchanan can't play together. That doesn't 'fly in the face of facts', its evident if you watch them every week. Dunfermline's two goals last week were down to a lack of communication between the two of them, against Ayr United they were horrendous (as were the whole team to be fair), in the 0-0 with QOS at home we handed Steven Rigg a barrowload of chances - fortunately he missed them all, both were regularly caught miles out position in the shambles against Raith which resulted in Buchanan being sent off, whilst we gave Hardie a free header from 6 yards against St Mirren at home - as a result of Barr charging out of position and taking out Harvie.

Going back to last season Stevie realised they couldn't play together after a few games and dropped Buchanan, played Barr and Wright and when that didn't work moved Barr into midfield.

Individually they are good players, but I've said it before and I'll stick by it until I can see them playing with an understanding, they do not work as a unit together. For whatever reason it just doesn't work. 

Weird how a scrappy 1-0 victory over a bunch of very, very poor jobbers suddenly makes everything alright again. We are in a decent position now, yes. However, a third of the way into the season, we have ten points. Has a team ever finished 8th with 30 points or less? Livingston did a few years ago (27, joint with Alloa) but that table was skewed by having Hearts, Hibs and Rangers in the league. No other team has managed it in the past 10 seasons. In fact, in many of them it would see us finishing dead last.

My positive spin is that we won. That's it. And, to be honest, if that was our positive every week then I'd be delighted with that.

[cedrick1]

Nobody suggesting everything alright and I fully expect us still to be in the relegation mix come end of season.

honestly yesterday despite st mirren having more possession ,yes cause we allow that,I didn't feel that worried.

so8-I though keeper to blame for dunf first last week??.

 

[Jan Vojáček]

4 minutes ago, cedrick1 said:

Nobody suggesting everything alright and I fully expect us still to be in the relegation mix come end of season.

honestly yesterday despite st mirren having more possession ,yes cause we allow that,I didn't feel that worried.

so8-I though keeper to blame for dunf first last week??.

 

Maybe in your opinion, but certainly not in my view. The ball in was a good one (although we could've at least tried to prevent it), he could've came for it but in that wind it was a risk. The fact we gave a poacher like Nicky Clark a free header 6 yards out is the reason they scored - not Aldo not coming for a cross. You can't afford to give a striker that amount of room that near the goal in Sunday league - or 5s - never mind in the Championship!

[AyrshireTon]

That goal

[RandomGuy.]

Silky.

[Jan Vojáček]

On 31/10/2016 at 09:22, Sonsteam of 08 said:

I suspect it'll be another draw which suits neither team. Garry Fleming for us, Ryan Hardie for them.

Just struck me that I was about 3 inches away from being correct.

[cedrick1]

Think in 5s it would have been a foul for a) ball above head height or b) attacker entering goal area. But your right it's all about opinions .

[squeezeboxson]

36 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

Maybe in your opinion, but certainly not in my view. The ball in was a good one (although we could've at least tried to prevent it), he could've came for it but in that wind it was a risk. The fact we gave a poacher like Nicky Clark a free header 6 yards out is the reason they scored - not Aldo not coming for a cross. You can't afford to give a striker that amount of room that near the goal in Sunday league - or 5s - never mind in the Championship!

 

I'd put the blame on the 'keeper last week also. I didn't even think it was 6 yards out. Anything in that area is goalkeeper's territory in my opinion.

I reckon you are putting too much thought into the CB pairing. I would argue that playing Thommo anywhere in the team right now is more frustrating than having Barr and Buchanan together at CB. Thommo has been awful for weeks and shouldn't be starting. Sparky also hasn't been the best over the last few matches, again a bigger concern for me than our CBs. 

As I mentioned previously, I'd much rather we were playing badly and picking up points than the almost games vs Morton, Hibs, and Dundee United.

[jagfox]

23 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Silky.

 Clangers gonna clang 

Definetly cost his team at least a point there. You'd give yer keeper pelters for doing that at 5 a sides. 

[paisleysaints]

 :lol:Clangers gonna clang :lol:

Definetly cost his team at least a point there. You'd give yer keeper pelters for doing that at 5 a sides. 

Got to admire his determination failed with first attempt. Wonder if his coupon came up

[RandomGuy.]

If you watch the Dumbarton striker just before Clangers passes it to him, you can see a, rather world class, feint, which clearly confused the ageing goalkeeper. 

[Jan Vojáček]

20 minutes ago, cedrick1 said:

Think in 5s it would have been a foul for a) ball above head height or b) attacker entering goal area. But your right it's all about opinions .

 Fair point

11 minutes ago, squeezeboxson said:

 

I'd put the blame on the 'keeper last week also. I didn't even think it was 6 yards out. Anything in that area is goalkeeper's territory in my opinion.

I reckon you are putting too much thought into the CB pairing. I would argue that playing Thommo anywhere in the team right now is more frustrating than having Barr and Buchanan together at CB. Thommo has been awful for weeks and shouldn't be starting. Sparky also hasn't been the best over the last few matches, again a bigger concern for me than our CBs. 

As I mentioned previously, I'd much rather we were playing badly and picking up points than the almost games vs Morton, Hibs, and Dundee United.

Perhaps I am, maybe I'm still basing it on my views from last season, but almost every week we concede a goal that I think could've been prevented if Barr and Buchanan were able to work together better. Obviously - as everyone knows on here - I'll stick up for 'keepers point of view, I can see why people think he should've came for, but I completely understand why he didn't. The fact remains however that we let a player nick in around our centre-backs and score with a free-header from close range. That shouldn't be happening.

Thommo is a weird one, I compared him to Nish and stick by that. He's played 1563 minutes this season, that's more than any other player in the squad and I'm not sure he's justified it. In saying that he's got 4 goals and 4 assists so far this season and so, if you want to base it on statistics alone, it could be argued that he deserves his place in the side despite being infuriating to watch a lot of the time. He had a cracking game against Dundee United, but was brutal against St Mirren (H) and Ayr. You don't know what you'll get from him, but that's the case for a lot of strikers at this level.

For me the obvious switch would be Barr into central midfield - where he was decent last season - and Sparky to centre-back where he's been very impressive (and picked up a few MOTM awards).

[squeezeboxson]

5 minutes ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:

For me the obvious switch would be Barr into central midfield - where he was decent last season - and Sparky to centre-back where he's been very impressive (and picked up a few MOTM awards).

To be honest, I was never convinced with Sparky at CB. He done okay for a couple of games but he also got cUght out a few too many times. Not a bad option if we have other injured etc but I wouldn't want him there permanently.

Far too often he sat too deep when the rest of the defense pushed out. He rushes into challenges at times too. Which he gets away with in midfield because he isn't the last line. Didn't he give a horrendous penalty away as well?

[Jan Vojáček]

6 minutes ago, squeezeboxson said:

To be honest, I was never convinced with Sparky at CB. He done okay for a couple of games but he also got cUght out a few too many times. Not a bad option if we have other injured etc but I wouldn't want him there permanently.

Far too often he sat too deep when the rest of the defense pushed out. He rushes into challenges at times too. Which he gets away with in midfield because he isn't the last line. Didn't he give a horrendous penalty away as well?

He did get caught out sitting deep against Falkirk (and there might've been another game too) but I felt more comfortable with him in there to be honest. He conceded a penalty against Peterhead early in the season - but was playing at LB that day because we hadn't signed Harvie yet, and hasn't conceded one since. The other penalties we've conceded have been Buchanan v Hibs ('foul' on Holt), and Harvie v Ayr (foul on Devlin).

I take it we're all just assuming Fraz is done as well? He's done a Shug Murray and vanished, only to be spotted on the bench these days. A real shame if he is finally finished, as he was outstanding last season. Wonderful player to watch as well.