Old Firm Colts in L2

[haufdaft]

Football is a business at the top end,Celtic pour millions into youth development for very little return, they are looking for a better return the colt team is one option.

McCart must be doing a great job if he's getting very little return from millions spent.

Maybe Celtic should be looking for a new Youth Development Head rather than wanting the "Wee teams" to bail him out.

[The Spider]

13 minutes ago, hague said:

the ajax colt team joined the dutch second division four years ago eleven players from that squad were in the first team squad in last seasons europa leage final so it certainly benefited them and should help  the dutch national team in the future.

Fair point, but misses two crucial considerations. Comparing the Dutch total football ethos with traditional Scottish lower league hoofball is hardly like for like is it? Secondly you fail to mention that Jong Ajax have players up to the age of 23 in their side which, as I highlighted several posts back, would make them a more realistic proposition (were I in favour of it) as there's a significant physical development (upper body strength) between 20 & 23.

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 minutes ago, hague said:

first two seasons ajax and psv colts were near the bottom off the league but since then they have been challenging for the title it has made for a far more competitve league and increased crowds.also colts teams cant be promoted .

Your name suggests you can back that up with stats.

[Cowden Cowboy]

8 minutes ago, hague said:

where did i say that?

You didn't but quite a few posters on here seem to believe folks state certain things when they didn't do so at all

[gordon9736]

4 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

 

 WMDs aimed at Borough Briggs, etc?

 

With RAF Lossiemouth just up the road,we've always had this threat hanging over our heads. I bet they wished that they hadn't knocked down the WWII pill box that used to be in the ground

[Jacksgranda]

5 minutes ago, gordon9736 said:

With RAF Lossiemouth just up the road,we've always had this threat hanging over our heads. I bet they wished that they hadn't knocked down the WWII pill box that used to be in the ground

When did they do that?

[wastecoatwilly]

14 minutes ago, haufdaft said:

 

 

McCart must be doing a great job if he's getting very little return from millions spent.

Maybe Celtic should be looking for a new Youth Development Head rather than wanting the "Wee teams" to bail him out.
 

 

Maybe i'm a bit harsh we do have tierney,forrest and mcgregor regulars in the first team but would like one or two more.

[gordon9736]

 

6 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

When did they do that?

Jacksgranda - off the top of my head, I think it was part of the deal for joining the league. If you were sitting in the stand, it was to the left of the terracing.  The youngsters used to climb on top of it and jump off if they got bored of the game.

[Jacksgranda]

1 minute ago, gordon9736 said:

 

Jacksgranda - off the top of my head, I think it was part of the deal for joining the league. If you were sitting in the stand, it was to the left of the terracing.  The youngsters used to climb on top of it and jump off if they got bored of the game.

Shows how much attention I paid on my infrequent visits over the years since League status was gained. I never even noticed it was gone! (I was hoping you were going to say sometime after 2008, as that would have been the last time I was there!)

[BFTD]

28 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Football is a business at the top end,Celtic pour millions into youth development for very little return, they are looking for a better return the colt team is one option.
McCart knows what is lacking to take the players to the next level,i'm sure the pros and cons will get ironed out from the pilot scheme plus the effect it has on clubs.

Celtic have been (apparently) shite at youth development, so the answer is to get the other sides to help them sort out their mess?  

Tell you what, Celtic can take half of the millions they've been wasting, and give it to the rest of the clubs as a gift to use on their own youth development. Any players that emerge, they can have for half of their market value. We'll run it as a trial for, ohh, say ten years, which should give enough time to see if it works. Maybe a couple of clubs like Alloa and Cowdenbeath can put together a proposal, get the SPFL to stick their logo on it, and communicate directly with the other clubs, seeing as how that's apparently how we do these things.

Bollocks idea, but still better than turning the lower leagues into (supposedly) a development scheme for a couple of clubs.

[Clyde01]

Instead of aiding youth development the colts pish might actually make it worse.

Promising young players breaking through at other premier league sides, who would normally break into the first team and get premiership games under their belt, instead snapped up and stock piled by rangers and Celtic then sent to play in league 2.

[Jacksgranda]

3 minutes ago, Clyde01 said:

Instead of aiding youth development the colts pish might actually make it worse.

Promising young players breaking through at other premier league sides, who would normally break into the first team and get premiership games under their belt, instead snapped up and stock piled by rangers and Celtic then sent to play in league 2.

That conjures up a vision of a warehouse racked out, with footballers stored there, row on row, to be wheeled out as necessary.

[Hammyton]

5 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

He's been among us all along!!!  

It'll be interesting to see what the steel glove will consist of, now that the (shrivelled and rotten) carrot hasn't worked. McCart seems to think his club will be able to push this through regardless at some point, so...

• More threats of running away to another league? We get them annually anyway, and no other league wants them. So sad, considering most of us would love to be rid.
• Withdrawal from the cups to try and damage a few diddies' finances? Let's be honest, the SFA and SPFL will let them get away with it if they can. Sounds cracking to me, though, considering how the trophies have been shared around in the past few years.
• Blackmail of club directors & chairmen? WMDs aimed at Borough Briggs, etc?

Seriously struggling to think of what the next move is going to be here; they're a bit hamstrung by this annoying voting thing we have. Anyone have any ideas?

It really is simple.  The message is accept Colts into the senior structure or the bottom 2 leagues will quickly find themselves cut adrift.

[1320Lichtie]

Instead of aiding youth development the colts pish might actually make it worse.

Promising young players breaking through at other premier league sides, who would normally break into the first team and get premiership games under their belt, instead snapped up and stock piled by rangers and Celtic then sent to play in league 2.

But then after they start winning league 2 over and over they’ll need to be allowed to progress further up the leagues.

[Doonhamer doon south]

24 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

Celtic have been (apparently) shite at youth development, so the answer is to get the other sides to help them sort out their mess?  

Tell you what, Celtic can take half of the millions they've been wasting, and give it to the rest of the clubs as a gift to use on their own youth development. Any players that emerge, they can have for half of their market value. We'll run it as a trial for, ohh, say ten years, which should give enough time to see if it works. Maybe a couple of clubs like Alloa and Cowdenbeath can put together a proposal, get the SPFL to stick their logo on it, and communicate directly with the other clubs, seeing as how that's apparently how we do these things.

Bollocks idea, but still better than turning the lower leagues into (supposedly) a development scheme for a couple of clubs.

I think the colts set up should remain as it is as club colts. 

 

I think then regions should be created. Within a region are a handful of club colts teams (West/central/east/North/South region etc). The cream of these colts go towards a region team that play in there own league seperate from anything else. Say 6 to 8 regions playing X number of games in a league. Play in lower league grounds maybe. A fan of any club are therefore more likely to go and watch a particular player than an actual colt team of any single club. The player will develope at a higher level than colt (because its meant to be the cream of the youth players) but lower than trying to break into a first team. This could run alongside the current loan and development system because a player although on loan and starting games or on the bench or rotting not even looked at could still get game time to prove themselves. 

 

This could target better coaching and better players. 

 

Bollocks idea like you say but I reckon slight improvement on what they suggesting

[BFTD]

12 minutes ago, Hammyton said:

It really is simple.  The message is accept Colts into the senior structure or the bottom 2 leagues will quickly find themselves cut adrift.

How do you intend to accomplish this, Chris? Another SPL-style breakaway for the top two leagues?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

If the SPFL teams had any balls they’d all resign en masse and start a new set up minus the old firm.
Can we fucking please stop calling them ‘colt’ teams. Please?

[Alert Mongoose]

But they gain the competitive edge that is lacking in the development league from the senior pros,weather they are cannon fodder or winning the league.

That's the worst spell of weather we have had in a while.

[afca32]

What I don't understand is why it's not the Old Firm youth scouts getting a grilling here. These are comfortably the two biggest clubs in the country and are capable of attracting the very best young players in the country at every age group. Still though, we have players from other Scottish clubs consistently being signed by the pair of them as they break into the first team at other clubs. This transfer window alone Greg Docherty and Lewis Morgan have signed from clubs in the Glasgow area, where the Old Firm should have a complete monopoly over young players.

I can't take the suggestion that these clubs are not able to integrate young players into the first team while others are. Hamilton have been struggling at the bottom of the league since Docherty broke into the team when they could easily have decided to take less of a risk and signed a more experienced player. Likewise Morgan made a large chunk of his appearances when St Mirren were near the bottom of the Championship. These two clubs are willing to give young players a chance, even when they're under pressure. The Old Firm on the other hand, well, Celtic since 2012 have had anything remotely like a title challenge twice. Rangers had the perfect opportunity to develop young players in Leagues 1 and 2 and instead decided to sign the best of the rest in the SPL with guys like Law, Templeton and Daly, clearly signalling their intent. Celtic, despite the lack of competition, have only had Tierney and McGregor really being given much game time and cementing a place in the first team. Yet they have signed Gary Mackay-Steven, Stuart Armstrong, Scott Allan, Ryan Christie and Lewis Morgan from other Scottish clubs.

Neither of these two horrible clubs give a shit about developing Scottish talent (or alternatively they're fucking crap at it) and the lower league clubs cannot bend over backwards to let them pretend they do.

Edited January 28, 2018 by afca32

[FairWeatherFan]

9 hours ago, afca32 said:

This transfer window alone Greg Docherty and Lewis Morgan have signed from clubs in the Glasgow area, where the Old Firm should have a complete monopoly over young players.

Lewis Morgan was one of those that got picked up by the Old Firm youth system. He was on the books with Rangers from 2004-2013, just as he was about to turn 17. OF argument might well be that if they had a colt side he would of been retained and developed "in house".

However I call bullshit on that theory as its based on how the player he has become, supposedly he was let go for being too short, which is something that goes right to the heart of the coaching & development of young players in this country. He would of been let go just the same, because he couldn't compete with grown men.