dogmc Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Ryan Grant is on the BBC being critical of selection and his time at Lions in 2013. Don't blame him. He really was treated disgracefully. Rowntree didn't even bother watching him live (despite him absolutely emptying nz and sa tight heads prior to the tour) then pushed for jobbers like Stevens and vunipola ahead of him even after injuries. Very nearly cost the lions that tour as the scrum was a liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 38-6 in 1983 is the record defeat, aye? Not sure it'll be quite that bad but it's certainly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 The one thing I have noticed is twitter and Facebook is full of reactions about the selections from ex-pros and pundits. With the English, Irish and Welsh all bemoaning their nations particular omission(O'Mahoney, Teo and Tipuric seeming the most popular names for each) I know it's not as striking as some of those names, but I'm yet to see one Scottish ex-pro or pundit mention anything about Seymour(who can possibly feel aggrieved at not making the bench over Nowell). Finally we have a (semi) legitimate gripe but we don't seem to have the same level of support from our media and ex-pros. I think this perfectly sums it up.As I probably am sounding like a broken record I won't mention these ex pros you refer to.... but heh the ones associated with the gravy train.. you know who they are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, dogmc said: Don't blame him. He really was treated disgracefully. Rowntree didn't even bother watching him live (despite him absolutely emptying nz and sa tight heads prior to the tour) then pushed for jobbers like Stevens and vunipola ahead of him even after injuries. Very nearly cost the lions that tour as the scrum was a liability. He is correct too. Vunipola was struggling and he remained on bench. Rowntree said he didn't trust him in a test situation. Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 He is correct too. Vunipola was struggling and he remained on bench. Rowntree said he didn't trust him in a test situation. Nonsense. Tragedy is grant has never fully recovered his form since that experience . At the time he was immense both in the scrum and the loose. Was astonished that rowntree was back with the lions again after that farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 38-6 in 1983 is the record defeat, aye? Not sure it'll be quite that bad but it's certainly possible. If nz really hit their stride it's entirely possible. They were well below their own level last week and still cruised to 30 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
same_ol_g35 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Ryan Grant is on the BBC being critical of selection and his time at Lions in 2013. As Dogmc beat me to saying, if anyone has the right to be critical of Gatland it's Grant. Good to see him speak up about it. It must be a tough subject for him as that Lions tour at least from a fans point of view seemed to be the catalyst for his form taking a drastic downturn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 As Dogmc beat me to saying, if anyone has the right to be critical of Gatland it's Grant. Good to see him speak up about it. It must be a tough subject for him as that Lions tour at least from a fans point of view seemed to be the catalyst for his for taking a drastic downturn. Let's hope Seymour and Russells appalling treatment doesn't mirror a similar situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Let's hope Seymour and Russells appalling treatment doesn't mirror a similar situation Russell doesn't seem at all fazed by it. Saw an interview with him on BBC news he has taken it in his stride. He's probably the best equipped guy mentally to deal with that situation eg laughing at the aussie players after they hit him late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Just off the top of my head thinking about a team of guys not used in the test 23s.....ReidHartleyNelGreyLaunch berryWatsonStraussRobshawCareRussellJoseph DunbarSeymourMayBrownSubs could include fraser brown fagerson Henderson tipuric price Taylor. Wouldn't beat the all blacks but I really think it would beat gatlands side and there are still plenty of English n Scottish guys missing (eg injuries to maitland hogg n huw jones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeko Green Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 38-6 in 1983 is the record defeat, aye? Not sure it'll be quite that bad but it's certainly possible. The weather may be the only thing to save the Lions from a tanking. The forecast rain will probably make their dozens of box kicks quite effective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said: 38-6 in 1983 is the record defeat, aye? Not sure it'll be quite that bad but it's certainly possible. Tries were worth 4 points in '83 so the equivalent score today would be 44-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 The Lions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy Snake Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 BBC Scotland has had plenty of stories of people being critical of Gatland’s selection and treatment of Scottish players. The only difference is these stories usually aren’t put on the BBC’s main rugby page or Radio 5 – exactly what has happened with Ryan Grant’s comments. I don’t understand why people get annoyed at pundits like Ian McGeechan though. Yes, Sky would claim he’s their Scottish representative but he’s only there because his experience with the Lions. He’s not been officially involved with Scottish rugby, other than through the Lions, since 1993 – Glasgow didn’t even turn professional until three years after that. Why should he have any bias towards Tommy Seymour? I’m happy to be corrected but, I don’t imagine McGeechan spends much time watching Glasgow, or any Pro 12 rugby for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 BBC Scotland has had plenty of stories of people being critical of Gatland’s selection and treatment of Scottish players. The only difference is these stories usually aren’t put on the BBC’s main rugby page or Radio 5 – exactly what has happened with Ryan Grant’s comments. I don’t understand why people get annoyed at pundits like Ian McGeechan though. Yes, Sky would claim he’s their Scottish representative but he’s only there because his experience with the Lions. He’s not been officially involved with Scottish rugby, other than through the Lions, since 1993 – Glasgow didn’t even turn professional until three years after that. Why should he have any bias towards Tommy Seymour? I’m happy to be corrected but, I don’t imagine McGeechan spends much time watching Glasgow, or any Pro 12 rugby for that matter. Don't you mean geechs In fairness tho. If McGeechan did not see Glasgow niling Leicester whilst scoring 44 points at Welford Rd.. he must be living under a rock and deserves to be nowhere near any rugby programme at this point in his life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 BBC Scotland has had plenty of stories of people being critical of Gatland’s selection and treatment of Scottish players. The only difference is these stories usually aren’t put on the BBC’s main rugby page or Radio 5 – exactly what has happened with Ryan Grant’s comments. I don’t understand why people get annoyed at pundits like Ian McGeechan though. Yes, Sky would claim he’s their Scottish representative but he’s only there because his experience with the Lions. He’s not been officially involved with Scottish rugby, other than through the Lions, since 1993 – Glasgow didn’t even turn professional until three years after that. Why should he have any bias towards Tommy Seymour? I’m happy to be corrected but, I don’t imagine McGeechan spends much time watching Glasgow, or any Pro 12 rugby for that matter. Did he not have a second failed spell as head coach in late 90s / early 2000s then try to be director of rugby? Not sure on dates but tbf the point stands that he hardly has his finger on the pulse of Scottish Rugby. That said if your going to accept a salary for being a pundit then you should be expected to do some research. It isn't hard to access pro12 footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, dogmc said: Did he not have a second failed spell as head coach in late 90s / early 2000s then try to be director of rugby? Yes, he took over in 99 after Telfer won the final Five Nations. In his Six Nations campaigns he finished 5th, 3rd, 4th & 4th. In the 2003 World Cup we got out the group with a 22-20 win over Fiji then lost the quarter final 33-16 to Australia, then he stood down and we had the joy of Matt Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Yes, he took over in 99 after Telfer won the final Five Nations. In his Six Nations campaigns he finished 5th, 3rd, 4th & 4th. In the 2003 World Cup we got out the group with a 22-20 win over Fiji then lost the quarter final 33-16 to Australia, then he stood down and we had the joy of Matt Williams. Aye mind that now....we robbed Fiji with a last minute Tom smith try that wasn't actually grounded....2000 was when we were really crap but beat England at murrayfield to stop them getting the slam. Eta it's striking that everyone would regard that mcgeechan spell as pretty poor bit his 6n record was better than cotters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy Snake Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Indeed I'm just losing track of things obviously. Though I'd maintain that I doubt he has much knowledge of the current Pro 12 sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 Indeed I'm just losing track of things obviously. Though I'd maintain that I doubt he has much knowledge of the current Pro 12 sides. Hammered Leicester home and away. Destroyed them on home patch. Only 2nd European game they had lost at home in about 10yrsMust surely be aware of this.... eh a certain Tommy Seymour?Nope.. never mentions him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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