New clubs in the East of Scotland

[FairWeatherFan]

29 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Bottleneck from EoS, WoS and SoS to LL, only 1 promotion spot. There should be 1 relegation and 1 play-off spot (a natural semi final with 3 league winners and 2nd bottom LL - both finalists filling LL spots).

The Final then becomes redundant if both are promoted already. 3 teams would be praying for the SoS champion each year. There's also the fact the LL tends to finish a couple weeks earlier (mid-april) while the Tier 6 leagues would be playing till the first week of May at least. Unless you want to rush the season to a finish in April like the Highland leagues have tried to do.

29 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

Tayside question / midland league needs sorted.

Done.

[Marten]

4 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

The real problems I see are:

Bottleneck from EoS, WoS and SoS to LL, only 1 promotion spot. There should be 1 relegation and 1 play-off spot (a natural semi final with 3 league winners and 2nd bottom LL - both finalists filling LL spots).

Tayside question / midland league needs sorted.

I think Colt clubs, shouldn't be included automatically in LL unless there is a proper pathway below to get into LL.

 

If you do have a play-off that includes 2nd bottom in the LL, I think the best is to play a round robin. Then, depending on promotion/relegation with the SPFL, you can just promote/reprieve the top 1/2/3 of that round robin. It could in theory result in no promotion, but it could also result in promotion of 3 clubs (in reality either option would probably be very rare to happen). In any case, I think the highest finished eligible team of each league should go to the play-off, so if a champion is unlicensed, the next best team would go (probably with an additional clause of having to finish top 3 or so).

 

The Midlands League/Tayside question is already sorted.

[Auld Heid]

4 hours ago, Marten said:

If you do have a play-off that includes 2nd bottom in the LL, I think the best is to play a round robin. Then, depending on promotion/relegation with the SPFL, you can just promote/reprieve the top 1/2/3 of that round robin. It could in theory result in no promotion, but it could also result in promotion of 3 clubs (in reality either option would probably be very rare to happen). In any case, I think the highest finished eligible team of each league should go to the play-off, so if a champion is unlicensed, the next best team would go (probably with an additional clause of having to finish top 3 or so).

 

The Midlands League/Tayside question is already sorted.

Then the real issue is fixing the current LL - recent relegations have proved that relegated teams struggle in EoS.

The whole principle is teams finding their level.  The current LL is full of teams waiting to be relegated yet blocking below with only 1 team going down.

Only Bo'ness in recent years have failed upon moving up to LL.  Yet not many LL teams have succeeded back in EoS.

 

[newcastle broon]

7 hours ago, Auld Heid said:

The whole principle is teams finding their level.  The current LL is full of teams waiting to be relegated yet blocking below with only 1 team going down.

 

There's 2 teams that are struggling that I might agree with you on. 

That is miles away from being full of teams waiting to be relegated.

The big anomaly is whether one of the B teams,absolute nonsense having unofficial champions,wins the league.

I'm not convinced the B teams won't be there next year either. 

[FairWeatherFan]

We'll see soon if the B teams are back. As it was around this time/March last year they were dusting off their powerpoint presentations.

 

[newcastle broon]

9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

We'll see soon if the B teams are back. As it was around this time/March last year they were dusting off their powerpoint presentations.

 

Wouldn't have a problem wi them if they started off at the bottom and worked their way up like every other  clubs new to the EoSFL have had to do. 

[MrIrvinePollock]

On 10/02/2023 at 09:38, FairWeatherFan said:

We'll see soon if the B teams are back. As it was around this time/March last year they were dusting off their powerpoint presentations.

 

And there's a big cup final coming up so I'm sure a number of complementary tickets for corporate will be filtering down the line.....;-)

[drs]

4 hours ago, MrIrvinePollock said:

And there's a big cup final coming up so I'm sure a number of complementary tickets for corporate will be filtering down the line.....;-)

Remind me who sponsors the Lowland Farce?

[Spyro]

37 minutes ago, drs said:

Remind me who sponsors the Lowland Farce?

The same one who threatened to pull out if the Colts weren't allowed to join then fiddled it anyway? The old chairman was very keen to have them on board too before they all disappeared without trace

[Robert James]

On 09/02/2023 at 20:05, Marten said:

If you do have a play-off that includes 2nd bottom in the LL, I think the best is to play a round robin. Then, depending on promotion/relegation with the SPFL, you can just promote/reprieve the top 1/2/3 of that round robin. It could in theory result in no promotion, but it could also result in promotion of 3 clubs (in reality either option would probably be very rare to happen). In any case, I think the highest finished eligible team of each league should go to the play-off, so if a champion is unlicensed, the next best team would go (probably with an additional clause of having to finish top 3 or so).

 

The Midlands League/Tayside question is already sorted.

I agree.

The real problem in the pyramid is the relegation/promotion between SPFL League 2 and Tier 5 (HFL/LL).

There should be one AUTOMATIC promotion place for the winners of the Highland/Lowland play-off, replacing the bottom SPFL club, which would be relegated to the HFL or LL.

In addition, the HFL/LL play-off losers should then have a play-off against the club which has finished bottom but one in League 2. The advantages are :

(1)  it would open-up the promotion chances for ambitious pyramid clubs

(2) it would mirror the promotion/relegation system currently used throughout the SPFL 

(3) it should give relegated SPFL clubs a better chance of returning to the SPFL

(4) it should encourage the top pyramid leagues to review the promotion and relegation between tiers 5 & 6.

The above could be introduced in TWO stages (over 2 or 3 seasons), which might be more palatable for SPFL clubs.

[The Mantis]

6 hours ago, Robert James said:

I agree.

The real problem in the pyramid is the relegation/promotion between SPFL League 2 and Tier 5 (HFL/LL).

There should be one AUTOMATIC promotion place for the winners of the Highland/Lowland play-off, replacing the bottom SPFL club, which would be relegated to the HFL or LL.

In addition, the HFL/LL play-off losers should then have a play-off against the club which has finished bottom but one in League 2. The advantages are :

 

(2) it would mirror the promotion/relegation system currently used throughout the SPFL 

Appreciate the sentiment, but being pedantic, there is no system currently used throughout the SPFL. The system for the Premiership is different from that used for Championship and Lge1 , where the 9th club has to face 2 rounds to stay up. In the Premiership the 11th club automatically enters the final before facing an opponent which may already have played 2 rounds. Neither of these setups corresponds exactly to what you’re suggesting, although it looks to be fairer if it was applied right across the board.

Edited February 14, 2023 by The Mantis

[rockson]

9 hours ago, Robert James said:

I agree.

The real problem in the pyramid is the relegation/promotion between SPFL League 2 and Tier 5 (HFL/LL).

There should be one AUTOMATIC promotion place for the winners of the Highland/Lowland play-off, replacing the bottom SPFL club, which would be relegated to the HFL or LL.

In addition, the HFL/LL play-off losers should then have a play-off against the club which has finished bottom but one in League 2. The advantages are :

(1)  it would open-up the promotion chances for ambitious pyramid clubs

(2) it would mirror the promotion/relegation system currently used throughout the SPFL 

(3) it should give relegated SPFL clubs a better chance of returning to the SPFL

(4) it should encourage the top pyramid leagues to review the promotion and relegation between tiers 5 & 6.

The above could be introduced in TWO stages (over 2 or 3 seasons), which might be more palatable for SPFL clubs.

It should give relegated SPFL clubs a better chance of returning to the SPFL..

That would mean they would have to attract good enough players to win the league they get elegated into - which hasn't happened so far (but might in Brechin's case.)

As is stands SPFL clubs relegated into the Lowland League - most of whose players will be out of contract, being on one-year deals - seem to face a big problem in persuading enough good new ones to join a sinking ship.

Granted a Lowland club returning to the SPFL may occur in future but it doesn't look likely right now for precisely the reason above.

[craigkillie]

On 07/02/2023 at 19:09, patriot1 said:

We already have regionalisation.

Scotland is divided into two regions, Highland and Lowland. The Lowland is divided into three more regions, West, South and East. How much further do we need to go?

If teams don’t want to travel to play a game of football they should be in the amateur leagues. Honestly, if Duns join the EOS is it too much to ask them to come to Fife three or four times in a season?!?

Why do regions have to stop at those ones? Most other countries have a pyramid which fans out into smaller regions as it goes down, I don't really see why it wouldn't make sense to have a couple of tiers at West/East level before then splitting to, for example South/Ayrshire/Central in the west and Fife/Lothian/Borders in the East at the very lowest levels, even if that is basically in the form of amateur leagues.

Edited February 15, 2023 by craigkillie

[stanley]

2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Why do regions have to stop at those ones? Most other countries have a pyramid which fans out into smaller regions as it goes down, I don't really see why it wouldn't make sense to have a couple of tiers at West/East level before then splitting to, for example South/Ayrshire/Central at the lower levels in the west and Fife/Lothian/Borders at the very lowest levels, even if that is basically in the form of amateur leagues.

Of course. Pretty much every pyramid system will get more local as you go down the leagues. It seems very strange to have the east and west leagues not regionalise further down the pyramid. I can't imagine it will help with new clubs joining.

[junglehenry]

6 hours ago, rockson said:

It should give relegated SPFL clubs a better chance of returning to the SPFL..

That would mean they would have to attract good enough players to win the league they get elegated into - which hasn't happened so far (but might in Brechin's case.)

As is stands SPFL clubs relegated into the Lowland League - most of whose players will be out of contract, being on one-year deals - seem to face a big problem in persuading enough good new ones to join a sinking ship.

Granted a Lowland club returning to the SPFL may occur in future but it doesn't look likely right now for precisely the reason above.

If relegated club isn't good enough, and doesn't match the ambitions to go straight back up then it's found it's level. The automatic promotion, has to happen with a play-off perhaps for a 2nd spot. It will then allow teams who have been hanging about the lower end of spfl to show ambition and not be happy with just sitting there.

 

 

[rockson]

16 hours ago, junglehenry said:

If relegated club isn't good enough, and doesn't match the ambitions to go straight back up then it's found it's level. The automatic promotion, has to happen with a play-off perhaps for a 2nd spot. It will then allow teams who have been hanging about the lower end of spfl to show ambition and not be happy with just sitting there.

 

 

The only ones that haven't been in a higher division in the recent past are Annan and Elgin.

Also, I doubt any team relegated from the SPFL has lacked the ambition to go back up, they just haven't managed to attract players good enough to do it.  For which there are understandable reasons, not least what I presume is players' unwllingness to join them.

[tamthebam]

I see there's plans for a sports centre at Wallyford- a revived Bluebell anyone?

[Robert James]

On 14/02/2023 at 20:55, rockson said:

It should give relegated SPFL clubs a better chance of returning to the SPFL..

That would mean they would have to attract good enough players to win the league they get elegated into - which hasn't happened so far (but might in Brechin's case.)

As is stands SPFL clubs relegated into the Lowland League - most of whose players will be out of contract, being on one-year deals - seem to face a big problem in persuading enough good new ones to join a sinking ship.

Granted a Lowland club returning to the SPFL may occur in future but it doesn't look likely right now for precisely the reason above.

 

Highland League Brechin City may be the first club to win back a place in SPFL Tier 4 ? 

Bonnyrigg Rose may be the first pyramid champions to be relegated back to Tier 5 (from the SPFL) ?.

[Andy groundhopper]

Think the biggest problems are, good amateurs probably play mainly local teams - with players who are happy to do so. Go upwards and suddenly you may have extra travelling/costs with players who maybe working Sat morning's etc. Guess the higher up the league's, the pool of available players gets smaller. Maybe why club's don't look towards the EOS. 

[Spyro]

That's why it should be North and South after Div 1, so you have the 3-2-1 steps as you improve through the steps.

It always seems to create strong feelings though, don't know if it's just too much like the old junior way... but it works. 

The split will be around Edinburgh now rather than splitting up Fife with the Tayside club going up norff but I can't see why it wouldn't work for everyone. The levels of these teams are close enough so there won't be cricket scores and if you don't like being in a regional league then don't be pish and get into Div 1.