New clubs in the East of Scotland

[stanley]

On 30/03/2018 at 17:18, kefc said:

Rumour is it’s extemly unlikely that tomorrows deadline will be extended for new applicants into the EOS League for next season although clubs can put an application in tomorrow pending any EGMs or meetings they may have after the deadline.

Looking like any club not part of the EOS will remain Junior for next season, you’d think it’s too late for the SJFA to come to an agreement with the LL, EOS and the SFA to merge or join for next season especially up until the last couple of weeks the SJFA’s stance has always been that their clubs aren’t interested in the pyramid, hence “they never seen it coming” quote this week. The questionnaire blew that stance out the water.

Hearing as of today there’s 12 clubs applied so far 11 East, 1 West -

4 Superleague, 4 Premier, 3 South Region, 1 West

Do you know if 12 was the final total?  I know you can't reveal the names of the clubs. 

From your post, we already know three.

Superleague-Camelon plus 3

Premier-Blackburn, Dalkeith plus 2

South-3 teams

West-1 team

[Ginaro]

3 hours ago, stanley said:

Do you know if 12 was the final total?  I know you can't reveal the names of the clubs. 

From your post, we already know three.

Superleague-Camelon plus 3

Premier-Blackburn, Dalkeith plus 2

South-3 teams

West-1 team

Process of elimination - I don't think we've read any positive noises from Tayside clubs so let's rule them out, also Linlithgow and Bo'ness apparently haven't applied.

From the Superleague you'd think Bonnyrigg, which leaves Dundonald, Hill of Beath, Kennoway, Penicuik, Sauchie who said yes in the survey.

From the Premier - Dunbar didn't respond, which leaves Arniston (members apparently said no according to the Junior forum), Bathgate, Fauldhouse, Haddington, Musselburgh (upcoming EGM), St Andrews and Tranent (upcoming EGM) who said yes. You'd think it would be the East Lothian clubs as it would mean more local derbies.

South - everyone but Easthouses, Kirkcaldy YMCA, Pumpherston, Stoneyburn and West Calder said yes.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Ginaro

[Burnie_man]

Someone on the Junior forum, a St.Andews fan/committe said that they didn't apply. I heard at Dunbar on Saturday that they didn't apply. Arniston another who didn't apply.

 

 

 

 

[Burnie_man]

Edinburgh United haven't been shy at saying they applied.

[heedthebaa]

Just had a wee look back at threads from yesteryear, awfully doom and gloom. Plenty posts about the EOS being deed or clubs going junior, what a turnaround !!!!

[Robert James]

4 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Process of elimination - I don't think we've read any positive noises from Tayside clubs so let's rule them out, also Linlithgow and Bo'ness apparently haven't applied.

From the Superleague you'd think Bonnyrigg, which leaves Dundonald, Hill of Beath, Kennoway, Penicuik, Sauchie who said yes in the survey.

From the Premier - Dunbar didn't respond, which leaves Arniston (members apparently said no according to the Junior forum), Bathgate, Fauldhouse, Haddington, Musselburgh (upcoming EGM), St Andrews and Tranent (upcoming EGM) who said yes. You'd think it would be the East Lothian clubs as it would mean more local derbies.

South - everyone but Easthouses, Kirkcaldy YMCA, Pumpherston, Stoneyburn and West Calder said yes.

Haddington have been mulling over joining the pyramid for a few seasons. Their location means that the EoS would be a logical choice. Not heard any recent rumours about them, one way or another.

Has anyone else ? 

[gaz5]

St Bernard's, who have been suggested, sign Derek Riorden today.........

[Burnie_man]

16 hours ago, heedthebaa said:

Just had a wee look back at threads from yesteryear, awfully doom and gloom. Plenty posts about the EOS being deed or clubs going junior, what a turnaround !!!!

I guess I'll be hanging round here a lot more now

[heedthebaa]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

I guess I'll be hanging round here a lot more now

There’s the first negative of the pyramid then  remember and keep popping into the juniors forum to tell Goudie how great it is to be senior  

edit to add........very few can argue you talk shite, top of the pops 

Edited April 4, 2018 by heedthebaa

[Burnie_man]

There’s the first negative of the pyramid then [emoji38] remember and keep popping into the juniors forum to tell Goudie how great it is to be senior  
edit to add........very few can argue you talk shite, top of the pops [emoji14]

Awesome, already in amongst the trophies in the EoS [emoji23]

[heedthebaa]

[Insideinfo]

Is there no critique for joining the EoS?

With the exception of Bonnyrigg, none of the teams referenced will add real value.

Teams aren't suddenly going to be competitive after struggling as lower end juniors.

Which kinda defeats the object of a pyramid.

[FairWeatherFan]

28 minutes ago, Insideinfo said:

Is there no critique for joining the EoS?

With the exception of Bonnyrigg, none of the teams referenced will add real value.

Teams aren't suddenly going to be competitive after struggling as lower end juniors.

Which kinda defeats the object of a pyramid.

Easthouses & Craigroyston are considered traditional EoS clubs and both are in the South Division. Every club to publicly join the the EoS next year are Premier League or higher. The obvious argument to make therefore is that the standard of the EoS will be improving over what it has been traditionally.

The EoS is the bottom of the pyramid. So if the EoS is improving, the pyramid is improving. That's not a defeat it's a win.

Edited April 4, 2018 by FairWeatherFan

[Clayhole Blue]

Is there no critique for joining the EoS?

 

With the exception of Bonnyrigg, none of the teams referenced will add real value.

 

Teams aren't suddenly going to be competitive after struggling as lower end juniors.

 

Which kinda defeats the object of a pyramid.

 

 

 

 

 

It really doesn’t.

 

The principle of the pyramid is that it is open to everyone, no matter their abilities. The more teams that come in, the more these apparently ‘no value’ teams will find their appropriate level.

 

They may also become more capable teams if their new level means that they can attract better players.

[ian44wood]

13 minutes ago, Insideinfo said:

Is there no critique for joining the EoS?

With the exception of Bonnyrigg, none of the teams referenced will add real value.

Teams aren't suddenly going to be competitive after struggling as lower end juniors.

Which kinda defeats the object of a pyramid.


 

Real value?

[Robert James]

11 hours ago, gaz5 said:

St Bernard's, who have been suggested, sign Derek Riorden today.........

Could be a sign that St Bernards have EoS ambitions.

If the number of EoS applicants does include 2 amateur clubs, as previously suggested on this theme, then the other club could be  AM Soccer (Fife) AFC, who are currently riding high in the Kingdom of Fife Premier League.   AMS is an ambitious club which was interested in joining the Lowland League, before it reached its full compliment of 16 clubs, and it wouldn't be surprising if this club was now seeking to join the EoS.

Does anyone have knowledge of this, or any other amateur club, which may have an aspiration to join the EoL ?

[Insideinfo]

Real value?

Playing value for one.

The EoS is currently a 2 horse race - Bonnyrigg will add to that. Looking at the other teams applying they hardly inspire confidence on a playing front.

The danger is the EoS dilute a poor league further. Adding numbers doesn't equate to adding value.

If they wanted to raise standards they were in pole position to cherry pick teams to join.

Instead of numbers over quality.

[drs]

Yeah, Camelon with 12 consecutive years in the Superleague are clearly going to dilute the quality!

[gaz5]

 

Playing value for one.

 

The EoS is currently a 2 horse race - Bonnyrigg will add to that. Looking at the other teams applying they hardly inspire confidence on a playing front.

 

The danger is the EoS dilute a poor league further. Adding numbers doesn't equate to adding value.

 

If they wanted to raise standards they were in pole position to cherry pick teams to join.

 

Instead of numbers over quality.

 

In fairness, I think this post is, in 5 lines, a fair reflection of both sides of this debate.

 

From the Junior non movers and naysayers, it seems all about the here and now: The current quality of the first team on the park, today.

 

For the teams moving and those that support the pyramid it seems far more about what they hope the club (all encompassing) will be and could be in the future, by making the move. Where they are more likely to fulfil their ambitions.

 

Take Blackburn as a good example of that. Not a club from the Superleague, but they have worked tirelessly for years to put the infrastructure and process in place to grow their club. They had already started and they are doing well on the park this year, despite being in a lower league. People can poo poo their application based on their current league position all they want, but surely they are in a great position, because of the work they have done behind the scenes and the infrastructure they have put in place to grow and improve quickly in the EoS league?

 

Theres more to this, in my opinion, than simply how good a team is on the park in the here and now, because that can change (and quickly - it does in most leagues on a regular basis, look at Albert's success in the West so far this year, or Ashfield relatively recent rise and fall from bottom to top back to bottom, or Selkirk in the LL sitting fifth from second bottom (I think) the season before). Success/quality of first teams is, generally, cyclical.

 

This seems more about the vision that clubs have for themselves in the future and where they see the best chance of that vision being realised.

 

I think there's more to judging any of these teams than just their current form on the park. Id say this is more about applicant clubs, as an entire package, than applicant first teams in isolation.

 

[12 Angry Men]

 In fairness, I think this post is, in 5 lines, a fair reflection of both sides of this debate.

 

From the Junior non movers and naysayers, it seems all about the here and now: The current quality of the first team on the park, today.

 

For the teams moving and those that support the pyramid it seems far more about what they hope the club (all encompassing) will be and could be in the future, by making the move. Where they are more likely to fulfil their ambitions.

 

Take Blackburn as a good example of that. Not a club from the Superleague, but they have worked tirelessly for years to put the infrastructure and process in place to grow their club. They had already started and they are doing well on the park this year, despite being in a lower league. People can poo poo their application based on their current league position all they want, but surely they are in a great position, because of the work they have done behind the scenes and the infrastructure they have put in place to grow and improve quickly in the EoS league?

 

Theres more to this, in my opinion, than simply how good a team is on the park in the here and now, because that can change (and quickly - it does in most leagues on a regular basis, look at Albert's success in the West so far this year, or Ashfield relatively recent rise and fall from bottom to top back to bottom, or Selkirk in the LL sitting fifth from second bottom (I think) the season before). Success/quality of first teams is, generally, cyclical.

 

This seems more about the vision that clubs have for themselves in the future and where they see the best chance of that vision being realised.

 

I think there's more to judging any of these teams than just their current form on the park. Id say this is more about applicant clubs, as an entire package, than applicant first teams in isolation.

 

 

This is an excellent post that very succinctly sums up exactly what would seem to be the ambitions of those Junior clubs hoping to move into the Pyramid and the EoSFL. It would do many who are posting on a similar thread in the Juniors pages of P&B the world of good to read and understand it.

 

Just one wee point though, Blackburn sit in fourth place in the sixteen team ERSJFA Premier League. The second of the three tiers in the east Juniors. Granted, not exactly competitors of, say, Super League champions in waiting Bonnyrigg should they also be one of the teams who have applied to move, or of another Super League side Camelon who we know have, but certainly not a team who will be weakening the standard of the current EoSFL rather, I imagine, one who will be augmenting it.