Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

In response to the amendment on Dec 10 that stipulated rape victims can make the request

 

 

[AsimButtHitsASix]

8 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Its SNP policy now to make that request is considered transphobic. That makes you a bigot.

I'll make this nice and simple for you. If the consulting physician is a black woman and the patient requests a white woman that's racist. That's bigoted. They can still do it. They wont be held down and forced to go through with the procedure. 

Likewise if the medical professional is a trans woman and the patient requests a ciswoman that is transphobic. Again no one will force them to be seen by a trans woman. They can make that choice. That doesn't stop their request being transphobic as it based entirely on them being trans. 

But, let's be honest, how many trans women are currently in positions where that would be an issue? There's a whole lot of scaremongering going on about something that is a complete non-issue by folk determined to bring anti-trans legislation into place for the benefit of no-one.

8 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

There's a lot more than twenty, I can give you specific examples if you want.

Yet haven't done so. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by AsimButtHitsASix

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

I'll make this nice and simple for you. If the consulting physician is a black woman and the patient requests a white woman that's racist. That's bigoted. They can still do it. They wont be held down and forced to go through with the procedure. 

Likewise if the medical professional is a trans woman and the patient requests a ciswoman that is transphobic. Again no one will force them to be seen by a trans woman. They can make that choice. That doesn't stop their request being transphobic as it based entirely on them being trans. 

But, let's be honest, how many trans women are currently in positions where that would be an issue? There's a whole lot of scaremongering going on about something that is a complete non-issue by folk determined to bring anti-trans legislation into place for the benefit of no-one.

Yet haven't done so. 

"Likewise if the medical professional is a trans woman and the patient requests a ciswoman that is transphobic."

 

Well there we go, at least you can discuss it. I don't believe it to be in the slightest bit transphobic, but at least you answered the question head on. To me its absolutely wild, and they're not doing it cause they're trans, they're doing it cause they're not female.  

I wouldn't want to be the one having to tell a woman who has just been raped she is actually a bigot for expressing the number one concern of rape victims, but you do you.

 

Another question then

Do you believe people are born in the wrong bodies?  Yes or no

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Carnoustie Young Guvnor

[AsimButtHitsASix]

11 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Another question then

Do you believe people are born in the wrong bodies?  Yes or no?

Da f**k is this? A Reddit AMA?

Personally? No. Gender incongruity exists, quite clearly, but calling it the "wrong" body seems insulting to me. Lots of folk body dysmorphia could argue the same without bringing gender and sex into it. I try not to be as simplistic as that. Give it a bash

But if we're asking questions what does the shoe horning of those terms into the legislation actually change for rape victims?

The answer you will be looking for, as eloquently explained by rape crisis Scotland, is f**k all.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

2 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Da f**k is this? A Reddit AMA?

Personally? No. Gender incongruity exists, quite clearly, but calling it the "wrong" body seems insulting to me. Lots of folk body dysmorphia could argue the same without bringing gender and sex into it. I try not to be as simplistic as that. Give it a bash

But if we're asking questions what does the shoe horning of those terms into the legislation actually change for rape victims?

The answer you will be looking for, as eloquently explained by rape crisis Scotland, is f**k all.

I respect you for answering these questions.  I've tried with a couple on here and they just disappear.

However, that makes you a transphobe. You are a bigot. You should be fired from your job and hounded off social media.

That is one of the core beliefs.  You see why people object to this?  Its fucking MENTAL.  If you don't agree that some people are born in the wrong bodies, you're a transphobe.  This is what they want put into legislation, this is what someone like Joanna Cherry is receiving daily death threats for refusing to accept.

And you see what I mean about people not even knowing what they're defending?  I'm not a transphobe or a bigot, I've never knowingly discriminated against anybody for anything in my life.  I passionately believe everybody, including trans people, should be free to live their lives however they choose as long as it doesn't impact someone else's ability to do so.

But I don't believe people are born in the wrong body.  Neither do you. That makes you and me a transphobe.  We're disgusting bigots. That's how crazy this is.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

The £500k was supposed to be ring- fenced!
Anyway, once the Treasurer responds to Stuart Campbell, we’ll know the answer.
Tell me I’m wrong, but I think the m’ship has dropped substantially recently.
Whats the current figure?

Do you now ? And what about the numbers intending to vote SNP....if only we had a poll or twenty.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Now, if someone wants to alter their body to make them feel more comfortable in their own skin, its their body they can do whatever the f**k they want with it I don't care its not my business.  But to believe that somewhere between conception and birth a mistake is made is absolutely batshit crazy.  

 

 

[UAE1929]

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, UAE1929 said:

Aye, outrageous we'd be discussing the issue putting the leader of the SNP at odds with half her party and which she posted a video message about last night.  Where do we get off eh?  We should really be discussing her fat husband or something eh or what colour dress she wore today.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

16 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Why would Sturgeon have been so worried about a Salmond come back, when, according his pal Craig Murray, all he wanted was to be chairman of Johnstone Press, and he'd shown no signs of political activity apart from signing up with RT, that she'd gamble everything by somehow persuading ten women to lie in court against him? It's robot planes on 9/11 levels of fantasy.

Is ‘why?’ the most important question? I don’t know why. Only Leslie Evans and/or Sturgeon herself know why.

You then jump from ‘why?’ to lazy rhetoric associated with ‘conspiracy theory’. Somewhere in between, the evidence is slowly emerging and will continue to do so until the dam breaks. I find it genuinely astonishing you’re not interested in the increasingly clear evidence that there has been a criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, involving members of the SG, civil service, and COPFS. The only thing we need to reserve judgement on is the precise role Sturgeon did (or didn’t) play in that. If she really has stepped back and allowed civil servants and advisers to make the running, she’s guilty of failing to ensure that her administration acts lawfully. If she’s more directly involved, well...

Either way, her career is over and the independence movement are going to have to absorb and overcome the impact of that, and quick.

9 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

You've defeated your own argument there, even before the post descends into full on jet fuel can't melt steel beams!!!1!11!  material with the Salmond conspiracy theories.

You're taking a guess at why people left with no knowledge of the reasons; we know why people have left over the last few days.

How on earth have I ‘defeated’ any argument? I was very careful to make it absolutely clear you can’t say with any certainty _why_ 40,000 members have vanished... that wasn’t the main point I was making.

The main point is that 40,000 is a large number. Why on earth would the leadership, according to your logic (‘no choice but to make a statement’) say nothing about that... then leap to Twitter on a midweek night when two dozen (a small number) flounce off because they took a battering in the NEC elections? (I’m not even going to get into your weird idea that the ‘nutters’ are on their way in to the NEC; they’ve just been booted off...).

Sturgeon has begun to position herself as a martyr for some deliberately false idea of a ‘progressive’ (in her terms) SNP, desperately trying to cast those who are about to empty her as ‘reactionary’ (bigots/transphobes/whatever does the job). It’s cynical, dishonest politics of the worst kind... a cover, ultimately, for the fact that she’s let the Brexit window close without capitalising on it.

Disappointed you also then default to the lazy conspiracy theory stuff; as above, there’s already enough evidence to confirm that something is badly wrong and there’s much more to come.

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

What a pile of steaming shite.
 

Great post. Eloquent way of saying you really don’t want to deal with the reality. Nae luck.

 

To all three of you: will you put your money where your mouths are? Wee bet for charity that Sturgeon’s political career is over, either through exposure before (or probably during) the election campaign, or in an ostensibly health-related resignation (exhausted dealing with Covid type of deal)?

On top of the cash, I’ll even promise to stop laughing at Falkirk (just to show how serious I am...).

[For context, I’ve supported independence all my adult life, am still (just) a member of the SNP, and remain confident the independence movement will survive whatever happens. I’m as astonished as anyone that this is how the Sturgeon story ends...]

[welshbairn]

^^^Johanna/Wings fanboy still fails to impress after taking 16 hours to come up with an answer as to why anyone in the Scottish Government would first think there was any need to worry about the RT's latest recruit, and secondly how they managed to persuade 10 women to lie in court.

[NotThePars]

17 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

To all three of you: will you put your money where your mouths are? Wee bet for charity that Sturgeon’s political career is over, either through exposure before (or probably during) the election campaign, or in an ostensibly health-related resignation (exhausted dealing with Covid type of deal)?

On top of the cash, I’ll even promise to stop laughing at Falkirk (just to show how serious I am...).

50 quid that Sturgeon is still the leader by June?

[Juanhourjoe]

1 hour ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Likewise if the medical professional is a trans woman and the patient requests a ciswoman that is transphobic."

Of course it is. But not unexpected in the circumstances. Medical professionals respect the irrationality of the trauma of their patients. No patient is going to have to see someone they are uncomfortable with, and never have. This is not an issue.

 

1 hour ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

wouldn't want to be the one having to tell a woman who has just been raped she is actually a bigot for expressing the number one concern of rape victims, but you do you.

But this take isn't ok. As has been numerously pointed out to you. There is no reason for this to ever actually happen. People can have bigoted views based on trauma. And not need to be dealt with harshly. But work through their issue tactfully. Whereas someone like yourself having issues with trans people is clearly bigoted, and you need told.

[welshbairn]

21 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

To all three of you: will you put your money where your mouths are? Wee bet for charity that Sturgeon’s political career is over, either through exposure before (or probably during) the election campaign, or in an ostensibly health-related resignation (exhausted dealing with Covid type of deal)?

I'm in for £50 too, by midnight on May 31st seems fair.

Edited January 29, 2021 by welshbairn

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Ive supported a number of victims of horrific sexual crime over the last couple of decades, ive never had a single one specifically request that the forensic medical examiner was not trans. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 hour ago, Juanhourjoe said:

Of course it is. But not unexpected in the circumstances. Medical professionals respect the irrationality of the trauma of their patients. No patient is going to have to see someone they are uncomfortable with, and never have. This is not an issue.

 

But this take isn't ok. As has been numerously pointed out to you. There is no reason for this to ever actually happen. People can have bigoted views based on trauma. And not need to be dealt with harshly. But work through their issue tactfully. Whereas someone like yourself having issues with trans people is clearly bigoted, and you need told.

Who the f**k do you think you are to tell a rape victim her wishes to be examined by a female doctor is irrational?  Have you ever been raped?  Are you even female?  The arrogance is breathtaking.  And you're just denying reality, if GRA is passed as proposed this becomes a possibility, even a likelihood

 

No, people say this isn't likely to happen to talk round the fact they can't justify it ever happening but don't want to say so cause then they'd be a transphobe.

I'm not transphobic or bigoted in the slightest, you can say it as much as you want it doesn't make it true. If I'm transphobic show me one transphobic thing I've ever said then.....

You're just an astonishing combination of arrogance and ignorance at the same time

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

56 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ive supported a number of victims of horrific sexual crime over the last couple of decades, ive never had a single one specifically request that the forensic medical examiner was not trans. 

Irrelevant given this has only become a possibility in the very recent past

How many of them wanted examined by a female doctor?  Bearing in mind this is their number one concern when asked

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Funny I asked for one transphobic thing Joanna Cherry has ever said or done in her entire life and you'll be shocked to the entire forum has come up with f**k all so far.  Stunning development.

[John Lambies Doos]

Please this debate isn't still going on is it..

[UAE1929]

1 hour ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Aye, outrageous we'd be discussing the issue putting the leader of the SNP at odds with half her party and which she posted a video message about last night.  Where do we get off eh?  We should really be discussing her fat husband or something eh or what colour dress she wore today.

I understand everyone has a lot of time on their hands with lockdown, but dear me, you are a complete fud.