Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Colkitto]

Sturgeon is/was a class act. Anyone who replaces her won't be of the same standard. That doesn't mean they won't be a success in the job as leader and FM. 

If she had any flaws I thought she was at times too reserved and could have been a bit bolder in the strategy to obtain independence. 

Lets see who is next... 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Donathan said:

The GRA is probably going to get filed in the bin or at least heavily watered down IMO.

 

There was a poll the other day that asked 1,000 respondents whether (A) They agree with the contents of the GRA and (B) They think the UK government are right to block it.

 

 

When the results were split by independence voting intention, No voters overwhelmingly oppose the content of the bill and agree with the UK government blocking it, somewhat unsurprisingly.

 

The Yes voters were more interesting. Their support for the bill was close to 50-50, but most don’t agree with the UK government blocking it. The latter result is unsurprising given these people are independence supporters and thus want Holyrood to have full control over the law in Scotland, but the former is quite notable. Only half of yes voters actually agree with the GRA reform itself.

 

Scrapping it or heavily watering it down would be a pretty easy way for the new leader to score political points. 

We had a discussion about this on here and for many of us the reality is that we simply don't care.

Stats can be made to look like anything due to the questions asked but as a party member I honestly have no real view on this as there's arguments from both sides both positive and negative.

From my own perspective I feel there's much more important and pertinent issues that we should be spending our time on and from a political sense I think it's a bit of a Red Herring as regards a party destroying issue, but of course the Unionist media are doing their best to make it a serious issue when it's really not.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

16 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

Sturgeon is/was a class act. Anyone who replaces her won't be of the same standard. That doesn't mean they won't be a success in the job as leader and FM. 

If she had any flaws I thought she was at times too reserved and could have been a bit bolder in the strategy to obtain independence. 

Lets see who is next... 

Her biggest issue has always been her inherently conservative nature - too much playing within the rules.

[AUcal]

John Hughes in the running? SNP are too big to carried to League 1, surely?

[alta-pete]

31 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

 

As for her replacement it is more than likely that Angus will step into the role as he is popular with the membership, other attributes is that he is fluent in German thanks to his German mother, plus he did an excellent Politics and International Relations degree at Aberdeen Uni, on gaining Independence these would be helpful in our effort to regain EU membership.

Hiya Angus, hiya pal.

[Aufc]

7 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Absolutely no argument with your first sentence but I have concern over your statement that she made bizarre decisions which indicate you think she alone made governmental policy, as FM she was part of the voting process like any other MSP, when bills were adopted she then, again as FM, was the person the mediia turned to for comment, any comments she made were representative of her party's policy.

As for her replacement it is more than likely that Angus will step into the role as he is popular with the membership, other attributes is that he is fluent in German thanks to his German mother, plus he did an excellent Politics and International Relations degree at Aberdeen Uni, on gaining Independence these would be helpful in our effort to regain EU membership.

Clearly she wont have made the decisions herself but she will absolutely have led the SNP policy with most people happy to follow on. At the end of the day, she is the leader of the party so therefore takes the stick when the party comes away with stupid policies. 

3 minutes ago, orfc said:

How's she clearly been a superb leader???

A long term leader, yes

But 9 years with the Tory bonfire of a Westminster government and support for independence hasn't moved on at all? That's shocking. That's her legacy.

 

I dont want to come across as a SNP fan boy as i have been slating them lately and, in a way, i am kinda glad NS away as i just feel her last 6 months or so have been terrible. However, in terms of why i think she has been a great leader for Scotland. She is one of the only politicians who i felt actually cared about the needs of the Scottish people. You can tell she genuinely cares about it and isnt just using being a politician as a means to promote herself or as a gravy train. Even if i disagreed with her policies during covid, she stood up almost every day and spoke. She never hid away. 

[Juanhourjoe]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Sturgeon was a highly effective politician, but like all politicians has a limited shelf-life. She missed the ideal opportunity to leave after the acute phase of the pandemic but has done well to go now before it goes down the pan. 

There's a lot of doomcasting about a replacement, but the reality is that a new leadership won't automatically be choosing from the narrower and narrower group of ministers in favour with the old FM. You would have had to be a political anorak of the highest order to identify the SNP's new leader at Westminster twelve months ago.

A leadership change is far better done mid-term with the opportunity to draw a line under the mistakes and to freshen things up. 

Good points. The more known faces come with more baggage. I tend to believe fresh faces can be more successful. And the media don't automatically have something to attack them with. Giving a new leader time to set their agenda. 

Looking through the MSPs. Emma Roddick would be a good choice, if members wanted the party to go a bit more progressive. 

[SandyCromarty]

1 hour ago, orfc said:

How's she clearly been a superb leader???

A long term leader, yes

But 9 years with the Tory bonfire of a Westminster government and support for independence hasn't moved on at all? That's shocking. That's her legacy.

 

The need for Independence by the Scottish people has moved on.

The 2014 Referendum vote was 44.7% Yes and 55.3% No.

So quite an emphatic No.

A poll in October 2022 was 51% Yes and 43% No.

Ok you say that's just a poll plus there has been an adverse reaction with the likes of the trans issue.

But there has been a change and that is of course Brexit plus many No votes were from the elderly section of our society who have passed in the last 9 years, and the younger vote coming onstream and well aware of the westminster tory corruption are with the Yes vote.

Edited February 15, 2023 by SandyCromarty

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Westminster and Holyrood are unusual in not having term limits but 8 years of running any country is probably about enough for anybody, especially if you throw a pandemic in to up the stress levels.

Even their most craven apologists would at least admit that that their ninth and tenth years didn't see Thatcher or Blair on their best form.  

Sturgeon deserves credit for having the presence of mind to go "screw this, I'm done" before anybody else did rather than hanging on for as long as possible.

There will be a generational difference.

For people graduating in 1992  becoming active in the SNP seemed unlikely to lead to a career as a professional politician but for people graduating 15 years later the SNP looked like the natural party of government. 

Politicians will always say that they're more driven by their principles than by pursuing personal status, and high office but it's going to be a bit trickier to believe from Millennial SNP politicians than their Gen X counterparts

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by topcat(The most tip top)

[KirkieRR]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Her biggest issue has always been her inherently conservative nature - too much playing within the rules.

I think I prefer leaders who play by the rules. Whatever anyone thinks of Sturgeon, she's not Bungling Bonzo or Vlad the Pute or Donald Trumpet.

[SandyCromarty]

Here is a couple of headlines from the Fascist Himmleresque Propaganda Dept of the DMO.

DAN WOOTTON: Scheming Sturgeon's snivelling resignation is proof that embracing an extreme woke agenda then calling a male rapist 'her' is a ticket to political oblivion. She leaves the Scottish separatism cause in tatters 

It was barely 11am... but already you could hear the faint sound of Champagne corks popping around Westminster: HENRY DEEDES watches Sturgeon's downfall

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Just now, KirkieRR said:

I think I prefer leaders who play by the rules. Whatever anyone thinks of Sturgeon, she's not Bungling Bonzo or Vlad the Pute or Donald Trumpet.

The rules (our constitution) that are not worth the paper they and not written on.

 

 

 

[Richey Edwards]

5 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Westminster and Holyrood are unusual in not having term limits but 8 years of running any country is probably about enough for anybody, especially if you throw a pandemic in to up the stress levels.

One of the few good ideas (in principle, at least) I think the Americans have is that the President cannot have more than two terms. In theory this should mean that at least every eight years there's a refresh and that a potential successor is being primed.

Of course, in practice they seem to enjoy picking the shittest, least progressive candidates possible because anything remotely sensible like free healthcare and increased gun control is "too socialist" for most people.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 minute ago, SandyCromarty said:

Here is a couple of headlines from the Fascist Himmleresque Propaganda Dept of the DMO.

DAN WOOTTON: Scheming Sturgeon's snivelling resignation is proof that embracing an extreme woke agenda then calling a male rapist 'her' is a ticket to political oblivion. She leaves the Scottish separatism cause in tatters 

It was barely 11am... but already you could hear the faint sound of Champagne corks popping around Westminster: HENRY DEEDES watches Sturgeon's downfall

Is Dan Wootton actually @spongeheid15?

Jesus. 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 minute ago, Richey Edwards said:

One of the few good ideas (in principle, at least) I think the Americans have is that the President cannot have more than two terms. In theory this should mean that at least every eight years there's a refresh and that a potential successor is being primed.

Of course, in practice they seem to enjoy picking the shittest, least progressive candidates possible because anything remotely sensible like free healthcare and increased gun control is "too socialist" for most people.

It's not just America, just about any Presidential system has some kind of term limits

Of course sometimes (like Ireland and Germany) the President is head of state but the prime minister is effectively running the government. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_term_limits

[DeeTillEhDeh]

6 minutes ago, Benjamin_Nevis said:

Is Dan Wootton actually @spongeheid15?

Jesus. 

It's ludicrous that a talentless clickbaiter like Wooton is classed as a journalist.

[SandyCromarty]

8 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

It's not just America, just about any Presidential system has some kind of term limits

Of course sometimes (like Ireland and Germany) the President is head of state but the prime minister is effectively running the government. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_term_limits

You have to also consider the chaos that is the Italian Government where nobody has a clue what the f**k is going on.

[Theyellowbox]

To be honest, as someone who is pro independence, but not necessarily pro SNP, I was surprised my initial reaction of being a bit gutted by her standing down as I thought it might severely derail the push for independence. But, listening to her speech and seeing the utter disdain from the usual characters about her, the SNP and Scotland as a whole, I'm more coming to the view that her being there or not probably matters very little to the views on independence.

If you were pro independence, I doubt you'd be swayed by her alone and if you were against independence, her being there or not matters not.

If, (and I suspect there must be some) you change your opinion on independence as a result of her stepping down, then I suspect you held an incorrect view to what you actually felt beforehand.

In a way, her stepping away strengthens her powers of persuasion as she isn't on the hook for the day to day running.

I don't vote SNP (or Alba), but domestically, it's probably time for change and on the wider constitutional issue, it may well be that her resignation allows for more younger, fresher voices to emerge.

There is very talented folk behind Sturgeon that I'm not sure the Lib Dems, Tories or Labour can really match. 

[ScotiaNostra]

easily better leader than any other party in Scotland or UK but in my opinion thats down to just how dire other parties are currently. Good at soundbites but little substance over the 8 years, history will show.

[vikingTON]

19 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

One of the few good ideas (in principle, at least) I think the Americans have is that the President cannot have more than two terms. In theory this should mean that at least every eight years there's a refresh and that a potential successor is being primed.

Of course, in practice they seem to enjoy picking the shittest, least progressive candidates possible because anything remotely sensible like free healthcare and increased gun control is "too socialist" for most people.

The most successful US President in the 20th century (arguably of all time) won four terms of office. They only changed the system after that. 

In general I think political leaders are able to spend less time at the top in modern-day politics though. Even chancers like Johnson aren't able to swan off on holiday and out of the loop to anywhere near the same extent as their predecessors - although Sturgeon made a rod for her own back by using Twitter as a pulpit.