The St. Mirren FC 2023/24 thread

[Fony Titz]

OK we will send you them on the 7th.

[flyingscot]

14 hours ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

Aye that's the worry. I think he'd be a cheap enough squad player, being honest with ourselves we know he isn't good enough for the step up.

When he's on it he is brilliant but he can be just as bad.

 

I think he has improved in his time with us. He strengthened the team against QoS when he came on for Eck (who was carrying a knock), and you have to assume we're going to struggle to keep Liam Smith. 

Sure he had a nightmare against Aberdeen, and will always be capable of that but I don't think he's worse than some of the players we've had historically in the Premiership! 

Edited March 21, 2018 by flyingscot

[Coventry Saint]

7 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

I don't think he's worse than some of the players we've had historically in the Premiership! 

Can't imagine who you're talking about 

Spoiler

Camara. It's Mo Camara, right?

 

[Buddist Monk]

I like Stellios but he is simply not good enough nor consistent enough to regularly feature in the top division. Now, that is not to say he couldn't improve to match those requirements, but there is a reason he was found floating about the lesser clubs in Cypriot, Greek and Bulgarian football, there is also a reason he was given a short term sink or swim contract on the assumption that he was a gamble that could pay off and a bit of a wild card addition - and to his credit I'd say he as swum more than he's sank.

For me he won't score the goals in the higher division that he has in this one, and his defensive frailties would be exposed far too often. I could be completely wrong, and my appraisal may sound harsh (it does to me re-reading it!) but we need to face the facts of the situation that in this league it can be a coin toss on whether he plays a blinder or a blunder. I would love him to find an extra gear as he has the swagger that fans enjoy, I just don't think that extra gear is in his locker.

We've had Mo Camara at LB so in that sense we've all experienced what it's like to play with 10 men and a hole in our defence, and I really don't want to repeat that experience. So, for me, it's a case of he can get a new deal but it really won't be in his favour, he'll need to bide his time and when that time comes not only will it be more of a cameo appearance it isn't likely to lead onto an increase in his game time. When you look at it like that, what is required and what he is capable of offering, I see a bigger benefit from promoting within (or a promising youngster from lower down the leagues).

As a side note to this, the other flank and the Liam Smith situation. I honestly can't see Hearts letting him go out on loan with us again, even if Smith wished to do so. He has proven that he can, at the very least, compete at this level and certainly looks like he has improvement within him. I can see him being an asset that will be cashed in on, whether by returning him to the Hearts 1st team or by selling him on. I have no idea what he'd cost or if Hearts are going to sell but he is definitely a player I would be more concerned over keeping in comparison to Stellios.
 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Buddist Monk

[glenburn bud]

42 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

I think he has improved in his time with us. He strengthened the team against QoS when he came on for Eck (who was carrying a knock), and you have to assume we're going to struggle to keep Liam Smith. 

Sure he had a nightmare against Aberdeen, and will always be capable of that but I don't think he's worse than some of the players we've had historically in the Premiership! 

Spot on, he's nowhere near the poor standard of player we had when TC was manager. Some of the players he signed were truly horiffic. 

[Soctty]

Stelios is a talented player who needs to improve his focus during matches. The inconsistency in his play is what puts question marks over him. Take the Aberdeen match - gives away a needless penalty then sets up a goal at the other end, then makes an arse of a header to gift another goal. If he can cut out the brain farts he can certainly be an asset, and it's up to him how much of a success he can be for us. Add to all of this that he is a fans' favourite with a bit of character who is versatile enough to play in a few positions, and he is well worth keeping.

[Soctty]

57 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

I like Stellios but he is simply not good enough nor consistent enough to regularly feature in the top division. Now, that is not to say he couldn't improve to match those requirements, but there is a reason he was found floating about the lesser clubs in Cypriot, Greek and Bulgarian football, there is also a reason he was given a short term sink or swim contract on the assumption that he was a gamble that could pay off and a bit of a wild card addition - and to his credit I'd say he as swum more than he's sank.

For me he won't score the goals in the higher division that he has in this one, and his defensive frailties would be exposed far too often. I could be completely wrong, and my appraisal may sound harsh (it does to me re-reading it!) but we need to face the facts of the situation that in this league it can be a coin toss on whether he plays a blinder or a blunder. I would love him to find an extra gear as he has the swagger that fans enjoy, I just don't think that extra gear is in his locker.

We've had Mo Camara at LB so in that sense we've all experienced what it's like to play with 10 men and a hole in our defence, and I really don't want to repeat that experience. So, for me, it's a case of he can get a new deal but it really won't be in his favour, he'll need to bide his time and when that time comes not only will it be more of a cameo appearance it isn't likely to lead onto an increase in his game time. When you look at it like that, what is required and what he is capable of offering, I see a bigger benefit from promoting within (or a promising youngster from lower down the leagues).

As a side note to this, the other flank and the Liam Smith situation. I honestly can't see Hearts letting him go out on loan with us again, even if Smith wished to do so. He has proven that he can, at the very least, compete at this level and certainly looks like he has improvement within him. I can see him being an asset that will be cashed in on, whether by returning him to the Hearts 1st team or by selling him on. I have no idea what he'd cost or if Hearts are going to sell but he is definitely a player I would be more concerned over keeping in comparison to Stellios.
 

Re Smith, Hearts are hardly going to get someone to pay any decent amount of cash for a player whose biggest success has come in a league below the top league in Scotland. IT would make sense for them to either give him a shot in their first team, or to loan him out to us to see how he fares in the Premiership. Either way they find out if he has what it takes at a higher level. I'd say there is a fair chance of us taking him on loan for another season come the summer, with the player clearly enjoying his football here and developing nicely in this team.

[Soctty]

12 hours ago, QoS_Blue1919 said:

Josh Todd put in a brilliant shift on the wing today, exactly the type of player we need. Not as good as Morgan, Magennis etc but definitely talent in the boy, only 23 as well (our 2nd oldest player on the pitch tonight). I’m assuming he won’t be signed on with you boys next season? 

He's not signed up for next season, but I hope we give him a deal as he's shown signs of quality in his fleeting opportunities with us, with his time being punctuated by injuries. Hope he continues to do well for you guys, starting on Saturday...

[Buddist Monk]

1 minute ago, Soctty said:

Re Smith, Hearts are hardly going to get someone to pay any decent amount of cash for a player whose biggest success has come in a league below the top league in Scotland. IT would make sense for them to either give him a shot in their first team, or to loan him out to us to see how he fares in the Premiership. Either way they find out if he has what it takes at a higher level. I'd say there is a fair chance of us taking him on loan for another season come the summer, with the player clearly enjoying his football here and developing nicely in this team.

You've certainly got a more positive spin on it than I. For me he has shown that he is ready at least as cover for Hearts' RB if not a starting position, and while it's always difficult to judge a player when he plays in a different league I don't think I've seen anything from him that would suggest he'd struggle in any way. He is perhaps a little lightweight at times, and doesn't make the most of his crossing options, but he's not scared to have a dig and has fairly impressive awareness on field for his age.

I'm obviously no Levein, so who knows what will happen, but I am pessimistic about our chances of getting him back unless we fork out a decent wedge (or at least a decent wedge to us) for him.

 

[Soctty]

4 minutes ago, Buddist Monk said:

You've certainly got a more positive spin on it than I. For me he has shown that he is ready at least as cover for Hearts' RB if not a starting position, and while it's always difficult to judge a player when he plays in a different league I don't think I've seen anything from him that would suggest he'd struggle in any way. He is perhaps a little lightweight at times, and doesn't make the most of his crossing options, but he's not scared to have a dig and has fairly impressive awareness on field for his age.

I'm obviously no Levein, so who knows what will happen, but I am pessimistic about our chances of getting him back unless we fork out a decent wedge (or at least a decent wedge to us) for him.

 

I think if they loan him to us with an option to recall, it's better than him stagnating as cover for them, probably not even making the bench most weeks. He'll go back in the summer and do preseason with them, and during that time they'll decide whether to loan him out again or give him a go. Levein might not be manager next season - didn't seem overly keen when taking over this season so you never know if he'll try to bring someone else in and go back upstairs.

[Coventry Saint]

7 minutes ago, glenburn bud said:

Spot on, he's nowhere near the poor standard of player we had when TC was manager. Some of the players he signed were truly horiffic. 

My god. That summer. The flattering games against Blyth and Whitley Bay that made Callum Ball and Greg Wylde look like players. 

Looking back at that squad, there were so many players I'd forgotten about/removed from my mind. James Marwood. Yoann Arquinn (that debut red card!). Adam Drury. Isaac Osbourne. Emanuel Sonupe (!). Alan Gow. Victor Genev.

Throw in the farcical, lazy recruitment of Tommy Craig, the promotion of Goodwin to assistant then demotion back to player again, the dithering over giving Teale the job while the January window passed us by, the sale of McLean.

 

What a total clusterfuck from start to finish. No wonder it took us two years and a mercurial manager to recover from it.

[glenburn bud]

16 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

My god. That summer. The flattering games against Blyth and Whitley Bay that made Callum Ball and Greg Wylde look like players. 

Looking back at that squad, there were so many players I'd forgotten about/removed from my mind. James Marwood. Yoann Arquinn (that debut red card!). Adam Drury. Isaac Osbourne. Emanuel Sonupe (!). Alan Gow. Victor Genev.

Throw in the farcical, lazy recruitment of Tommy Craig, the promotion of Goodwin to assistant then demotion back to player again, the dithering over giving Teale the job while the January window passed us by, the sale of McLean.

 

What a total clusterfuck from start to finish. No wonder it took us two years and a mercurial manager to recover from it.

Exactly, and you have people slagging off Stelios for one bad game. You couldn't make it up.

[flyingscot]

51 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

Looking back at that squad, there were so many players I'd forgotten about/removed from my mind. James Marwood. Yoann Arquinn (that debut red card!). Adam Drury. Isaac Osbourne. Emanuel Sonupe (!). Alan Gow. Victor Genev.

I'd expunged Mo Camara from my memory. Adam Drury had a bizarrely decent record of 3 goals in 12 SPL games, but never played at a decent level again after us! Jake Caprice and Gus signed the boy Tonet too. We had Travner too but he wasn't bad, just hampered by the Summer of Beath.

Actually starting to think Stelios is worth a deal given some of the wasters that have stolen money off us!  

[Gareth_Glasgow]

Looking back at that squad, there were so many players I'd forgotten about/removed from my mind. James Marwood. Yoann Arquinn (that debut red card!). Adam Drury. Isaac Osbourne. Emanuel Sonupe (!). Alan Gow. Victor Genev.

I genuinely had no idea who two of them were before Googling. Reminds me of Danny Lennon's first season where we had about 50 players who weren't good enough.

[Coventry Saint]

7 minutes ago, Gareth_Glasgow said:

I genuinely had no idea who two of them were before Googling. Reminds me of Danny Lennon's first season where we had about 50 players who weren't good enough.

Sonupe and Genev had left my head altogether. We were really just guessing by that stage of the season.

This is old ground, but I hold the BoD more responsible for it all than I do Craig. He was just arrogant and out his depth. The board, though, should never have given him the gig, should have sacked him faster, replaced him faster, and replaced him properly. We could have had a half-decent, experienced coach in the door well before the January window opened.

Makes me very grateful for the current set-up.

[Soctty]

18 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

Sonupe and Genev had left my head altogether. We were really just guessing by that stage of the season.

This is old ground, but I hold the BoD more responsible for it all than I do Craig. He was just arrogant and out his depth. The board, though, should never have given him the gig, should have sacked him faster, replaced him faster, and replaced him properly. We could have had a half-decent, experienced coach in the door well before the January window opened.

Makes me very grateful for the current set-up.

Lennon should have been kept on unless we had a better man ready to take over. He was treated badly by the board in not clarifying his situation sooner - deserved better.

Incidentally, great to see him doing so well at Clyde now - always a legend.

[flyingscot]

I felt things had come to an end with Lennon to be honest. We did well around the split but it was bleak for much of the season and the board would have been within their rights to bag him near the start of the season when we had an awful run. 

The issue was never not renewing his contract, it was the cheap & lazy appointment of Craig. 

 

 

[paisleysaints]

31 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

I felt things had come to an end with Lennon to be honest. We did well around the split but it was bleak for much of the season and the board would have been within their rights to bag him near the start of the season when we had an awful run. 

The issue was never not renewing his contract, it was the cheap & lazy appointment of Craig. 

 

 

This is my take on it also his contract was up and it was time to try something else.   The cup run was magic but league form that was was terrible and we also failed to kick on from that.  old board have alot to blame for many farcical decisions in our resent history 

But as you say we went for the cheap option and tried it with tommy craig worst decision ever

[Arch Stanton]

1 hour ago, Soctty said:

Lennon should have been kept on unless we had a better man ready to take over. He was treated badly by the board in not clarifying his situation sooner - deserved better.

I disagree. In the four seasons he was the manager, Saints won a total of 23 league games at home out of 76...a home win percentage of just over 30%.

7 of those wins came in his final season which meant his home win percentage for the first three seasons was only 28%!!!

Going to home games became interminable and I believe that a change was the right decision. However, to appoint Tommy Craig was just about the worst possible replacement.

[Demented Zebra]

15 hours ago, Arch Stanton said:

I disagree. In the four seasons he was the manager, Saints won a total of 23 league games at home out of 76...a home win percentage of just over 30%.

7 of those wins came in his final season which meant his home win percentage for the first three seasons was only 28%!!!

Going to home games became interminable and I believe that a change was the right decision. However, to appoint Tommy Craig was just about the worst possible replacement.

Danny is a legend for the cup win alone league form was not great but you have to look at our other managers stats in that period of top flight football I'm sure Danny was the best.