The Celtic All Seasons thread

[wastecoatwilly]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

You say selling, but he's leaving at the end of his deal.

You lost a young keeper down South last month top as he was refusing to extend his contract.

Add in Dembele leaving this Summer, plus the two lads off to Bayern over a year ago.

Your youth system doesn't seem to be able to hold onto players anymore.

Pretty much because clubs like your's can't afford to run a reserve league plus the under 20's is fecked,the youth have no where to go but out the door.

[G51]

2 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Pretty much because clubs like your's can't afford to run a reserve league plus the under 20's is fecked,the youth have no where to go but out the door.

Nothing to do with them not seeing a pathway to the first team, no?

[wastecoatwilly]

59 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Its odd why clubs such as Bayern, Milan, Man U etc are all really keen to get these kids and see potential in them yet we seem to just let them go. It just seems to be another part of our setup that is broken currently, we can get the young talent in and develop them but seem to lose them as we don't deliver on promises or do they see a clear route to the first team.

Our youth teams for a number of years have been excellent, i don't get it

The fact that these types of clubs are calling on Celtic youth proves we're doing something right. 

[gannonball]

7 minutes ago, G51 said:

Nothing to do with them not seeing a pathway to the first team, no?

I wouldn’t say so. We just sold an academy lad last summer for a record fee and it looks like another is about to be our captain this summer. And if they don’t think they can get a game for Celtic anytime soon I doubt a move to champions league clubs is going to help that.

Edited February 5, 2021 by gannonball

[wastecoatwilly]

3 minutes ago, G51 said:

Nothing to do with them not seeing a pathway to the first team, no?

Hazard,Welsh and Johnston this season.

[G51]

2 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I wouldn’t say so. We just sold an academy lad last summer for a record fee and it looks like another is about to be our captain this summer. And if they don’t think they can’t get a game for Celtic anytime soon I doubt a move to champions league clubs is going to help that.

Tierney broke through six years ago, McGregor seven years ago. The boys coming through now were still in primary school when that happened. It's a different world now.

They won't break through at a CL club, but the difference is it comes with a better prestige when you are ready to move to the club you break through at. Also the wages are better. It's just a better move.

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Hazard,Welsh and Johnston this season.

Hazard is a third choice keeper whos only played because Lennon is insane. Welsh has played five games? Johnston the same. None of these players have established themselves in the first team. None of them are good enough to either.

[Jinky67]

6 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

The fact that these types of clubs are calling on Celtic youth proves we're doing something right. 

Yes we recruit and onboard good youth players, we have great youth coaches however when a youth player sees his chances of first team football being better at other clubs especially some of these European giants it also shows there is a disconnect somewhere. There isn't enough incentive to stay either

Why can't we keep a hold of them? Why don't the see themselves following the KT path? Was KT just the right guy in the right place at the right time and if circumstances been different he be another to fall through the net?

 

[gannonball]

6 minutes ago, G51 said:

Tierney broke through six years ago, McGregor seven years ago. The boys coming through now were still in primary school when that happened. It's a different world now.

They won't break through at a CL club, but the difference is it comes with a better prestige when you are ready to move to the club you break through at. Also the wages are better. It's just a better move.

Hazard is a third choice keeper whos only played because Lennon is insane. Welsh has played five games? Johnston the same. None of these players have established themselves in the first team. None of them are good enough to either.

You are basically saying what I said earlier in the thread regarding a better move. My point to you is We generally aren’t losing them to clubs because of lack of opportunity. We do give players chances as Willy pointed it out this season. Saying they are getting picked because the manager is ‘insane’ or not good enough is irrelevant really, they are still getting chances to prove themselves. Also Johnston would have more appearances for us right now if it wasn't for constant injury imo.

[wastecoatwilly]

17 minutes ago, Jinky67 said:

Yes we recruit and onboard good youth players, we have great youth coaches however when a youth player sees his chances of first team football being better at other clubs especially some of these European giants it also shows there is a disconnect somewhere. There isn't enough incentive to stay either

Why can't we keep a hold of them? Why don't the see themselves following the KT path? Was KT just the right guy in the right place at the right time and if circumstances been different he be another to fall through the net?

 

Deila put KT in the team it was sink or swim plus Izzy helped him when he needed a rest, the main problem for Celtic fans was winning games was more important so the balance needs to be spot on,fans forget we had 7 or 8 under 23's in the cup final against Hearts they only look at how the team struggled against a vastly experienced tarts team plus the budget mince.
The system is fecked in Scotland from 18's to 21's their development comes to a halt because clubs can't afford it,it's a fecking joke.

Edited February 5, 2021 by wastecoatwilly

[G51]

4 minutes ago, gannonball said:

You are basically saying what I said earlier in the thread regarding a better move. My point to you is We generally aren’t losing them to clubs because of lack of opportunity. We do give players chances as Willy pointed it out this season. Saying they are getting picked because the manager is ‘insane’ or not good enough is irrelevant really, they are still getting chances to prove themselves. Also Johnston would have more appearances for us right now if it wasn't for constant injury imo.

The last player Celtic brought through from the Academy to establish themselves in the first team was Tierney six years ago. That might as well be fifty years ago given how much youth football has changed since.

Players are looking at that and saying they don't fancy their chances of being the guy to buck that trend, so they're leaving.

Giving a player an opportunity isn't the same as giving a player a chance to prove themselves. Chucking a young boy into a chaotic team is setting him up to fail, as all three of those players have this season. Young players want an organised, thought-through development plan that commits to them, and Celtic simply aren't offering that, or they wouldn't be losing their top prospects for nothing.

That Johnston is constantly injured is one of the reasons he isn't good enough for Celtic. Your best ability is availability, and he doesn't have that.

[wastecoatwilly]

9 minutes ago, gannonball said:

You are basically saying what I said earlier in the thread regarding a better move. My point to you is We generally aren’t losing them to clubs because of lack of opportunity. We do give players chances as Willy pointed it out this season. Saying they are getting picked because the manager is ‘insane’ or not good enough is irrelevant really, they are still getting chances to prove themselves. Also Johnston would have more appearances for us right now if it wasn't for constant injury imo.

You are talking to a rangers fan that will never give Celtic any credit for trying to bring youth into the first team.

[wastecoatwilly]

10 minutes ago, G51 said:

Chucking a young boy into a chaotic team is setting him up to fail,

Failed at what?

[Grangemouth Bairn]

1 hour ago, Jinky67 said:

Its odd why clubs such as Bayern, Milan, Man U etc are all really keen to get these kids and see potential in them yet we seem to just let them go. It just seems to be another part of our setup that is broken currently, we can get the young talent in and develop them but seem to lose them as we don't deliver on promises or do they see a clear route to the first team.

Our youth teams for a number of years have been excellent, i don't get it

Yes it’s a pity because it’d be good to see some of the lads like Morrison, Hepburn, Angelini, Dembele, Hughes etc get a chance in Scotland.

Harper and Okoflex likely to be let go too.

 

[G51]

3 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Failed at what?

Football, willy.

[wastecoatwilly]

3 minutes ago, G51 said:

Football, willy.

Making the first team is deemed as failed?

[G51]

1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Making the first team is deemed as failed?

It can be. After all, Rafael Scheidt made Celtic's first team didn't he? Players fail when they aren't good enough. An academy prospect either has to give you c. 9000 minutes (equivalent of 100 games), a big transfer fee or (ideally) both before he's a success IMO. You're obviously not going to get that from every academy graduate, but then the system isn't geared to provide that - it's supposed to concentrate on the very best prospects.

Like I said, young prospects want structure, plans and assurances of a pathway. If you don't offer that, you won't keep them.

Clubs like Chelsea or Bayern Munich don't have to do that, because when a boy falls out of those academies he still ends up at a club like Bournemouth or Hoffenheim, getting paid decent wages with a chance to progress back to the big clubs once he fully develops.

Clubs that fall out of Celtic (or Rangers) academy end up at Morton or QOTS, if they're lucky. The others go straight to part-time football. So if you don't show those players that you're going to make a sincere effort to integrate them into the first team, you're going to lose them. We'd all make the same decision ourselves.

[wastecoatwilly]

8 hours ago, G51 said:

Clubs that fall out of Celtic (or Rangers) academy end up at Morton or QOTS, if they're lucky.

Wotherspoon and McCart (st johmstone),Gardyne(ross county),Steven O'donnell and Declan Gallgher (motherwell),Marcus Fraser and Eamonn Brophy(St Mirren),Stuart Findlay(Killie) Micheal Devlin and Dylan McGeouch (Aberdeen)   all these players came through Celtic's youth.

Edited February 5, 2021 by wastecoatwilly

[DMCs]

2 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Wotherspoon and McCart (st johmstone),Gardyne(ross county),Steven O'donnell and Declan Gallgher (motherwell),Marcus Fraser and Eamonn Brophy(St Mirren),Stuart Findlay(Killie) Micheal Devlin and Dylan McGeouch (Aberdeen)   all these players came through Celtic's youth.

In the grand scheme of things you are talking about 50-100k a year which is good relative to most people but not elite level footballers. 

The issue is that many of the Scottish footballers who are most likely to develop are those who left Scottish football quickest. Billy Gillmour etc.

[wastecoatwilly]

6 minutes ago, DMCs said:

In the grand scheme of things you are talking about 50-100k a year which is good relative to most people but not elite level footballers. 

The issue is that many of the Scottish footballers who are most likely to develop are those who left Scottish football quickest. Billy Gillmour etc.

I disagree with that you could say if Gilmour stayed at sevco he mite have had 50-60 first team games under his belt not just a handful at Chelsea.

[DMCs]

4 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

I disagree with that you could say if Gilmour stayed at sevco he mite have had 50-60 first team games under his belt not just a handful at Chelsea.

Truth is look at Gilmour or Karamoko Dembele and the issue for them is they are trying to break into clubs under extraordinary local pressure to win the league every season. It's a hard environment to break into but Scottish football must do better.