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If a government and police force were behaving this way in a South American, African or Asian country you'd have Western governments queuing up to condemn them, calling for an immediate end to the violence and repression, and rightly so. Will they be willing to do the same to Spain?

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3 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

https://twitter.com/eaamalyon/status/914435918672666624

how to get players battered 101. I imagine the game will be off in any case.

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Today the UD Las Palmas pays a visit to an unprecedented date for our country, the day that the Catalan government set for a referendum outside the Spanish legal framework, with the force that has the international echo of everything that happens in the Camp Nou. Public pronouncements in the previous days, especially that of our host, FC Barcelona, have made this official match of the Santander League something more than a sporting event in compliance with the calendar.

The UD Las Palmas could have been limited to being silent witness of this historical crossroads or to take sides. We settle for the second. We decided to embroider in our T-shirt a small Spanish flag and today's date, October 1, 2017, to testify without strings our hope in the future of this country and in the goodwill of those who live in it, in search of the best understanding. No matter how far away is the Gran Canaria Stadium, we have never felt the least temptation to be part of a country other than this. And however complex the situation may be, we will always rely on simplifying it to better understand and find solutions.

http://www.udlaspalmas.es/noticias/noticia/comunicado-oficial-3

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Watching Euronews there, unbelievable scenes. It defies belief how badly the Spanish have fucked this.

I've been pretty ambivalent about Catalan Independence, with neither side's arguments being particularly appealing to me. On the Yes side, I can understand someone not identifying with the sovereign state they happen to belong to but the "we're rich and everyone else is lazy" argument doesn't make it seem like the most admirable of independence movements. On the other side, the Welshbairn school of thought that Spain doesn't like it so they should sit down and eat their desayuno isn't much of an argument either.

I'm mixed on it from a Scottish perspective as well. It's a nice idea that less of a bottlejob country will pull it off and hold our hands towards Independence but the reality is, they're likely to face some particularly tricky barriers that may give our Unionists some ammo to work with.

When you see how Spain is carrying on, it's hard not to put all that in the bin and just want the Catalans to tell them to bolt. I'm guessing that a shitload of Catalans will be feeling the same way.

It's now going to be extremely awkies for the EU if it gets to the stage of a Spanish veto. What does it say for "European values" if a government that has just been seen sending heavies in to drag grannies down the street has the last word on Catalonia's EU membership.

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25 minutes ago, MONKMAN said:

fc21c31ad2b00cafd55a8025bf6962f5.jpg

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William has a point.  Who of us can really honestly say they don't get angry when their pet cat decides to hold an illegal vote?  I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to spend ten grand on a safari in Nairobi  only for the giraffes to be holding a highly improper plebiscite  pertaining to the ownership of the jungle.

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5 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

Watching Euronews there, unbelievable scenes. It defies belief how badly the Spanish have fucked this.

I've been pretty ambivalent about Catalan Independence, with neither side's arguments being particularly appealing to me. On the Yes side, I can understand someone not identifying with the sovereign state they happen to belong to but the "we're rich and everyone else is lazy" argument doesn't make it seem like the most admirable of independence movements. On the other side, the Welshbairn school of thought that Spain doesn't like it so they should sit down and eat their desayuno isn't much of an argument either.

I'm mixed on it from a Scottish perspective as well. It's a nice idea that less of a bottlejob country will pull it off and hold our hands towards Independence but the reality is, they're likely to face some particularly tricky barriers that may give our Unionists some ammo to work with.

When you see how Spain is carrying on, it's hard not to put all that in the bin and just want the Catalans to tell them to bolt. I'm guessing that a shitload of Catalans will be feeling the same way.

It's now going to be extremely awkies for the EU if it gets to the stage of a Spanish veto. What does it say for "European values" if a government that has just been seen sending heavies in to drag grannies down the street has the last word on Catalonia's EU membership.

My point was that holding an illegal binary poll with mainly only one side voting would not be a legal or moral mandate for a declaration of independence. Now that the Spanish Government has totally fucked it I can't see anything but chaos and violence leading to eventual secession. Everyone loses.

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