Minimum Alcohol Pricing

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

Ability to forward plan is nearly always worse when on a low income, you’re much more likely to need to take any shift given when your only choice is a 0 hour contract as an example.

You can get the cheapest, flexible slots by booking as late as the day before.

The number of people who don't have access to a car, live hours away from a supermarket on public transport, have less than 24 hours notice of their shift and are overweight will be extremely low.

5 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Just shouting fat b*****d at folk clearly doesn’t work.

This doesn't happen though. Maybe we need to do more of this instead of being scared of offending them and making excuses for their dietary and lifestyle choices.

It's not that long ago their was outrage against an ad campaign highlighting that obesity was a major factor in many cancers because it might hurt the fatties' feelings.

[Bairnardo]

11 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

You can get the cheapest, flexible slots by booking as late as the day before.

The number of people who don't have access to a car, live hours away from a supermarket on public transport, have less than 24 hours notice of their shift and are overweight will be extremely low.

This doesn't happen though. Maybe we need to do more of this instead of being scared of offending them and making excuses for their dietary and lifestyle choices.

It's not that long ago their was outrage against an ad campaign highlighting that obesity was a major factor in many cancers because it might hurt the fatties' feelings.

You can make a compelling argument that body positivity in terms of weight has gone as far as to be potentially harmful. I don't think, in 2023, you can make a compelling argument for body shaming and humiliation as a viable public health measure. Pointing out the risks of obesity, yeah sure. But not in a victimising or humiliating way. Too much work has been done and still needs done on body image for women and girls to go down the road of weight shaming. 

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, Bairnardo said:

You can make a compelling argument that body positivity in terms of weight has gone as far as to be potentially harmful. I don't think, in 2023, you can make a compelling argument for body shaming and humiliation as a viable public health measure. Pointing out the risks of obesity, yeah sure. But not in a victimising or humiliating way. Too much work has been done and still needs done on body image for women and girls to go down the road of weight shaming. 

That's fair enough. Some middle ground between body shaming and body delusion then.

[Bairnardo]

7 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

That's fair enough. Some middle ground between body shaming and body delusion then.

As always..... The middle ground.

 

But again, for me it's education that's lacking. You can't change a culture by simply making it more expensive. You have to prepared to seek marginal gains over a period of years, even decades. There's no silver bullet, and the attempts to find one result in everyone being punished with, invariably, a squeeze on their finances. 

[Granny Danger]

Has the “they’ve just got to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps” approach ever been effective when dealing with a social problem?

[Bairnardo]

13 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Has the “they’ve just got to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps” approach ever been effective when dealing with a social problem?

There are a considerable number of Tory voters who are convinced this is how it used to be in their day when Britain really was Great.... 

[Granny Danger]

55 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

There are a considerable number of Tory voters who are convinced this is how it used to be in their day when Britain really was Great.... 

You mean the days when there was extreme poverty and human misery and degradation?  The days when infant mortality rates were sky high and most folk died before their 60s?  The days when people took great pride on espousing Christian values whilst practicing the complete opposite?  Those days when Britain was really great?
 

[Bairnardo]

7 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

You mean the days when there was extreme poverty and human misery and degradation?  The days when infant mortality rates were sky high and most folk died before their 60s?  The days when people took great pride on espousing Christian values whilst practicing the complete opposite?  Those days when Britain was really great?
 

Yep. When men were men and dugs barked at strangers

[invergowrie arab]

I've come full circle in this.

It's classist because it doesn't affect  my wine and whisky and price fixing on behalf of multi billion pound corportations shouldn't be the business of government unless the Scottish Govt are then getting that money back. This is an economy and taxation point and doesn't address whether or not the policy works.

Similarly with the free bus travel for pensioners and children. Its not free, we all pay for it and private companies shareholders get the money. 100% in favour of free public transport for all but it needs to be transport owned by the people.

[Salt n Vinegar]

53 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I've come full circle in this.

It's classist because it doesn't affect  my wine and whisky and price fixing on behalf of multi billion pound corportations shouldn't be the business of government unless the Scottish Govt are then getting that money back. This is an economy and taxation point and doesn't address whether or not the policy works.

Similarly with the free bus travel for pensioners and children. Its not free, we all pay for it and private companies shareholders get the money. 100% in favour of free public transport for all but it needs to be transport owned by the people.

Lothian Buses is jointly owned by the City of Edinburgh, East, West and Midlothian Councils, so that's fine by me.  On the alcohol tax, as things stand, the Scottish Government has no control over excise duties. We'd need independence for that.

[invergowrie arab]

13 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Lothian Buses is jointly owned by the City of Edinburgh, East, West and Midlothian Councils, so that's fine by me.  On the alcohol tax, as things stand, the Scottish Government has no control over excise duties. We'd need independence for that.

You won't get any argument from me that we need the full levers of independence to make the changes we need but MUP wouldn't be excise duty. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

17 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

You won't get any argument from me that we need the full levers of independence to make the changes we need but MUP wouldn't be excise duty. 

If it was a straightforward tax, duty or VAT I wouldn't be too bothered as long as it was set in Scotland and stayed in Scotland. 

Another new whisky was launched today - from Harris. Bottles have been flying off the online shelves at £65 a pop.  It rips my knitting that about 70% or more of the cost of a bottle of whisky goes to that chancer at 11 Downing Street.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

34 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Lothian Buses is jointly owned by the City of Edinburgh, East, West and Midlothian Councils, so that's fine by me.  On the alcohol tax, as things stand, the Scottish Government has no control over excise duties. We'd need independence for that.

Technically “Devo Max” would probably be sufficient. 

[RH33]

15 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

You can make a compelling argument that body positivity in terms of weight has gone as far as to be potentially harmful. I don't think, in 2023, you can make a compelling argument for body shaming and humiliation as a viable public health measure. Pointing out the risks of obesity, yeah sure. But not in a victimising or humiliating way. Too much work has been done and still needs done on body image for women and girls to go down the road of weight shaming. 

As an overweight woman, I think the body positive message has got to the stage where being morbidly obese is being seen as fine. Fine but size 24 and 26 models in bikinis to promote body image but be normalising it we're ignoring the huge health impact being that overweight can cause.

I've an Asda delivery pass, anytime as many times a month deliveries for £7, £25 minimum spend.

[welshbairn]

21 hours ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

If it was a straightforward tax, duty or VAT I wouldn't be too bothered as long as it was set in Scotland and stayed in Scotland. 

Another new whisky was launched today - from Harris. Bottles have been flying off the online shelves at £65 a pop.  It rips my knitting that about 70% or more of the cost of a bottle of whisky goes to that chancer at 11 Downing Street.

You wouldn't be paying 70% on that bottle from Harris, the duty element set at £28.74 per litre of pure alcohol, not as a percentage of the retail price. So the more you pay the less as a percentage goes to the tax man. The VAT element is a fixed 20% though of course.

[Moomintroll]

On 23/09/2023 at 11:48, Bairnardo said:

Yep. When men were men and dugs barked at strangers

And Leopards ate other peoples faces.

[Moomintroll]

I am CDR & the Issa Brothers wet dream, not only do I happily Self Scan I face up after myself because it has been lngrained in me for Decades, seriously, FML

[ICTChris]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/05/scotland-expected-to-raise-minimum-alcohol-price-by-30

Scottish Government will introduce a 30% increase in the MUP of alcohol from 50p per unit to 65p per unit.  Worth noting the following passage from the above article, given the justification that will be used for the measure.  

Quote

 

Public Health Scotland said last year that minimum pricing had been “associated” with a 13.5% fall in deaths wholly attributable to alcohol, compared with the expected death rate had minimum pricing not been in force.

Yet Scotland has experienced a 25% rise in alcohol-related deaths over the past three years, while the number of people using alcohol treatment services has fallen by 40% over the past decade, increasing the pressure on ministers.

 

Not that this subject is funny but it reminds me of the old joke about economists, who are evaluating the impact of a policy change - "OK, we understand how it works in practice but how does it work in theory?"

Edited February 5 by ICTChris

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/05/scotland-expected-to-raise-minimum-alcohol-price-by-30

Scottish Government will introduce a 30% increase in the MUP of alcohol from 50p per unit to 65p per unit.  Worth noting the following passage from the above article, given the justification that will be used for the measure.  

Not that this subject is funny but it reminds me of the old joke about economists, who are evaluating the impact of a policy change - "OK, we understand how it works in practice but how does it work in theory?"

The report the Guardian cite is here
https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/23223/final_alcohol-briefing-updated_1247.pdf
 

One detail  of the Guardian report the caught my eye was

"Scottish Labour supports the policy but has called for an additional alcohol levy on retailers to tax the unearned profits retailers earn from minimum pricing, with the proceeds passed directly to the NHS and efforts to combat addiction."

taxation is a reserved power

Are labour now promising to grant more fiscal autonomy to Holyrood?

Or are they going to try to devote legislative time in Westminster to a one off "MUP excess retail profits tax (Scotland)" bill?

Edited February 5 by topcat(The most tip top)

[strichener]

2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The report the Guardian cite is here
https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/23223/final_alcohol-briefing-updated_1247.pdf
 

One detail  of the Guardian report the caught my eye was

"Scottish Labour supports the policy but has called for an additional alcohol levy on retailers to tax the unearned profits retailers earn from minimum pricing, with the proceeds passed directly to the NHS and efforts to combat addiction."

taxation is a reserved power

Are labour now promising to grant more fiscal autonomy to Holyrood?

Or are they going to try to devote legislative time in Westminster to a one off "MUP excess retail profits tax (Scotland)" bill?

Or they could set the level of charge for their licence proportionate to their alcohol sales rather than the rateable value of the property.  No Westminster involvement required. 

Edited February 5 by strichener