What is the point of Labour ?

[lichtgilphead]

Here's The Canary's view on Starmer's latest:

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2023/12/03/real-conservative-keir-starmer-is-now-praising-the-worst-tory-pm-ever-while-deleting-his-10-pledges/

After deleting his 10 pledges, real ‘conservative’ Keir Starmer is now praising the worst Tory PM ever

In May 2023, Keir Starmer laid out why his Labour Party is the true vehicle of conservative values. Those who’ve watched him lurching ever rightwards will be unsurprised to learn he’s now praising – of all people – Margaret ‘milk snatcher‘ Thatcher. They’ll additionally be unsurprised to discover he’s doing it from behind a paywall in the Daily Telegraph.

 

Their lack of surprise will be further un-tested when we tell them Starmer tries to set himself up as a man of the people in this paywall-gated, Thatcher-praising stinkpiece. ‘Which people?’, they won’t ask, because they know exactly which people he’s pitching himself to – namely the sort who can stomach paying for a subscription to the Daily Telegraph

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by lichtgilphead
Tweets didn't pull through. See linked article for full details

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Aye, just heard on the radio about the Starmer/Thatcher love-in.  Be interesting to hear anyone from "Scottish" Labour comment on that and on the removal of the 10 Starmer pledges, or perhaps more like the '10 relatively meaningless suggestions' as we could maybe now call them.

Your last point is the crucial one. If the Scottish people don't like a Scottish government, the Scottish people can boot them out.  If Westminster decide to bring out the keech generator and apply it in Scotland all we can do is hunt down the bog roll.

I'm expecting an amendment to the legislation to compel the Scottish Government to grant permission for new nuclear power generation.  Power devolved is power retained and as long as we tolerate compulsory membership of the Westminster club, there's fek all we can do about it.

Labour doesn't have to appeal to Scots or anyone left of the political spectrum than Norman Tebbit. At the very, very worst, none of us are voting for the Conservatives and would abstain, or vote for another party who could be bribed into some kind of support for a minority government.

To get elected, they're after the votes of people who don't like furriners and/or disgusting poor people. The naive part is that folk seem to think they'll actually pursue some kind of socialist agenda, like the Tories would love them to. To stay in power, they'll want to stay just very slightly to the left of a Conservative party careering down the rapids towards full-blown fascism.

6 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Here's The Canary's view on Starmer's latest:

https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2023/12/03/real-conservative-keir-starmer-is-now-praising-the-worst-tory-pm-ever-while-deleting-his-10-pledges/

After deleting his 10 pledges, real ‘conservative’ Keir Starmer is now praising the worst Tory PM ever

In May 2023, Keir Starmer laid out why his Labour Party is the true vehicle of conservative values. Those who’ve watched him lurching ever rightwards will be unsurprised to learn he’s now praising – of all people – Margaret ‘milk snatcher‘ Thatcher. They’ll additionally be unsurprised to discover he’s doing it from behind a paywall in the Daily Telegraph.

 

Their lack of surprise will be further un-tested when we tell them Starmer tries to set himself up as a man of the people in this paywall-gated, Thatcher-praising stinkpiece. ‘Which people?’, they won’t ask, because they know exactly which people he’s pitching himself to – namely the sort who can stomach paying for a subscription to the Daily Telegraph

 

Thatcher was the best Conservative PM of my lifetime, which is to say that she successfully pursued the radical change in British society that the establishment wanted, chiefly the fragmentation of the working class into impotence. The rest have been some degree of incompetent, just coasting on the shockwaves from the nuclear bombs she deployed.

Credit where credit's due, we're so vulnerable now because of Fatch, and her shining legacy is that so many from Generation X onwards are completely convinced that there's nothing that can be done to stop the slow, creeping sell-off of Britain's family jewels, and the productivity mantra that demands people work harder for less reward in perpetuity.

Anyway, remember when Cameron was proclaiming the Conservatives as the party of the working class, and now Labour are saying they're the real conservatives?  Politics, eh? I wonder when one of them will declare themselves the true champions of Scottish nationalism  

[O'Kelly Isley III]

1 hour ago, KirkieRR said:

I know that politicos always talk about 'what they hear on the doorstep' yet never seem to turn up on actual doorsteps: however, if a Labourite does appear on mine, the Thatcher thing is another question I will raise.

If a Labourite does appear on your doorstep there's a very strong chance they will be a student at an English university bussed up to Scotland.

[tamthebam]

Starmer praises Thatcher.

Scottish No voters: Let's give Labour a go again, they'll bring about the Socialist paradise we're wanting... 

[Jedi2]

Was okay when Salmond as SNP FM at the time praised Thatchers economic policies though:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/alex-salmond-scotland-didnt-mind-thatcher-economics-2465159

[lichtgilphead]

39 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Was okay when Salmond as SNP FM at the time praised Thatchers economic policies though:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/alex-salmond-scotland-didnt-mind-thatcher-economics-2465159

Can you please point out exactly where Salmond praised Thatcher 15 years ago, Jedi?

All I can see is a bit where he says that "We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."

Not minding some policies whilst disliking all the others is hardly "praise". 

Now, please compare Salmond's words with  some actual praise for the c*ntbitch:

"Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism"

I wonder who said that? Look behind the Telegraph's paywall for the answer...

[aDONisSheep]

Give Starmer his due, he never fails to surprise me!

I thought him being a duplicitous, un-principled, back stabbing, war crimey-cnvt!  Was as low as he could get... 

Yours, he can fvck right off!

aDONis

 

[orfc]

20 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Can you please point out exactly where Salmond praised Thatcher 15 years ago, Jedi?

All I can see is a bit where he says that "We didn't mind the economic side so much. But we didn't like the social side at all."

Not minding some policies whilst disliking all the others is hardly "praise". 

Now, please compare Salmond's words with  some actual praise for the c*ntbitch:

"Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism"

I wonder who said that? Look behind the Telegraph's paywall for the answer...

That's just saying what she tried to do had a big effect though, not praising it, you'd need an extra adverb such as "brilliantly sought" or a conjunction at the end such as "which was a great idea"

[Trogdor]

Up is down and down is up. If Labour keep matching the Tories step for step the only place left for the Tories is the traditional Labour space.

Sunak's last throw of the dice to be endorsing Sir Keith's abandoned pledges!

Tax the top 5% more; tax companies more; go after tax avoiders; nationalise the energy, water, rail companies, no privatisation of the NHS; strengthen trade unions etc.

I appreciate that's far fetched but this Labour strategy of being slightly less bad than the Tories ain't really something that inspires. Fucking grim.

[BFTD]

It's fine for the party of the working class to praise the Hammer of the Working Class because a banker thought her economic policies weren't all bad fifteen years ago and a lot of people still voted for his party for other reasons.

Presumably this means that the SNP must have done a good job of governing with those views, which...wasn't the take I was expecting to read on the Labour thread today.

2 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

Up is down and down is up. If Labour keep matching the Tories step for step the only place left for the Tories is the traditional Labour space.

Sunak's last throw of the dice to be endorsing Sir Keith's abandoned pledges!

Tax the top 5% more; tax companies more; go after tax avoiders; nationalise the energy, water, rail companies, no privatisation of the NHS; strengthen trade unions etc.

I appreciate that's far fetched but this Labour strategy of being slightly less bad than the Tories ain't really something that inspires. Fucking grim.

Nah, they've still got plenty of room to move right. It's just that they'll be going to places that not many of us thought we'd see in the UK during our lifetimes, perhaps naively.

There's absolutely no benefit to moving left for the Conservatives. Their donors would abandon them, and their post-politics "jobs" would dry up. It would be like us offering to work extra hours for free so our boss could pay his mortgage off quicker.

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, orfc said:

That's just saying what she tried to do had a big effect though, not praising it, you'd need an extra adverb such as "brilliantly sought" or a conjunction at the end such as "which was a great idea"

Compare & Contrast:

The Canary Worker's Co-op: "After deleting his 10 pledges, real ‘conservative’ Keir Starmer is now praising the worst Tory PM ever" 

The Guardian: "Keir Starmer praises Margaret Thatcher..."

Kevin Maguire: "Thinking of Keir Starmer's praise for a Margaret Thatcher who..."

Sky News: "Sir Keir Starmer praises Margaret Thatcher..."

Humza Yousaf: "Starmer praising Thatcher is an insult..."

with

@orfc: "it's not praise unless it says "brilliantly sought"  or "which was a great idea"

Aye. Right.

[orfc]

5 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Compare & Contrast:

The Canary Worker's Co-op: "After deleting his 10 pledges, real ‘conservative’ Keir Starmer is now praising the worst Tory PM ever" 

The Guardian: "Keir Starmer praises Margaret Thatcher..."

Kevin Maguire: "Thinking of Keir Starmer's praise for a Margaret Thatcher who..."

Sky News: "Sir Keir Starmer praises Margaret Thatcher..."

Humza Yousaf: "Starmer praising Thatcher is an insult..."

with

@orfc: "it's not praise unless it says "brilliantly sought"  or "which was a great idea"

Aye. Right.

And headline writers are always accurate right

What he did was reference Thatcher, not praise her

Am I the only one who has a dictionary in here? 

[Bully Wee Villa]

There's no way that "Margaret Thatcher sought to drag Britain out of its stupor by setting loose our natural entrepreneurialism." isn't praising Margaret Thatcher.

[lichtgilphead]

7 minutes ago, orfc said:

And headline writers are always accurate right

What he did was reference Thatcher, not praise her

Am I the only one who has a dictionary in here? 

If it was only just the headline writers, you might have a point.

However...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-labour-tory-margaret-thatcher-b2457570.html

Lots of Labour MP's criticism of his praise for Thatcher in the article, plus a Tory accusing him of riding on Thatcher's coat-tails.

Perhaps @orfc can conceed that he holds a minority view?

 

[KirkieRR]

Starmer's from Sheffield is he not?

This can't have gone down well there.

[oneteaminglasgow]

Anyone praising Thatcher is unacceptable, given she’s amongst the worst people to have ever lived. The only good thing she ever did was die. 

[TheScarf]

44 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

Starmer's from Sheffield is he not?

This can't have gone down well there.

If he is then he’s spent absolutely zero time actually living there. Otherwise he wouldn’t sound like he’s lived in Kensington & Chelsea his whole life. 

[EvilScotsman]

53 minutes ago, KirkieRR said:

Starmer's from Sheffield is he not?

This can't have gone down well there.

No, no he isn't. London.

[Miguel Sanchez]

Keir Starmer defends praising Thatcher in pitch for Tories - BBC News

Quote

Later on Sunday, Sir Keir told Broadcasting House that the point of his article was to compare what he described as the "drift" of recent years with the "sense of mission" of previous leaders.

"It doesn't mean I agree with what she (Thatcher) did, but I don't think anybody could suggest she didn't have a driving sense of purpose.

"We've declined as a country in the past 13 years," he said, but added Labour would bring through "a driving sense of purpose".

"The point I am making in that article is that you can distinguish political leaders, certainly in the post war period, into those that had a plan and a sense of mission, and those that drifted essentially."

Now I'm not very experienced with the media but if I hadn't praised someone and the media said I had praised them then when I was clarifying what had happened I would have used the phrase "I did not praise her."

But I'm not the keef savant the kind of which we have on here. 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Of course if I was the leader of the Labour party I wouldn't be citing Margaret fucking Thatcher as any kind of example to follow in anything but I'm not sir keef.