What is the point of Labour ?

[carpetmonster]

15 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

"Senior Labour party source". I wish they'd name the individual when stuff like this comes out. 

 

ETA - they're to blame for him not noticing the milk had gone before he put it into his cereal this morning too. 

Edited May 3 by carpetmonster

[Freedom Farter]

1 hour ago, carpetmonster said:

 

ETA - they're to blame for him not noticing the milk had gone before he put it into his cereal this morning too. 

I love an Akehurst reference. While he is genuinely malicious he's also so ridiculous he makes me laugh.

This shite argument from the senior figures seems to be having some trickle down within Labour. Here's a councillor promoting something along the same lines:

He doesn't seem interested in who those voters actually are that've switched to a different party or why they have. They're mostly folk of Kashmiri Pakistani background who see a parallel between Israel's actions towards Palestinians and India's actions towards Kashmiris. That's why they especially care about the issue even relative to other Muslim groups. Then recognising they may have a unique concern doesn't mean he should just dismiss that concern. He should consider that they might actually be right. His party's stance on the issue might be the problem not those voters.

Edited May 3 by Freedom Farter

[ICTChris]

Khan thumping Hall in the first few declarations big swing from 2021. Oh well

[BFTD]

7 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Khan thumping Hall in the first few declarations big swing from 2021. Oh well

Racists going absolutely fucking tonto at the moment.

There's no possible way that these clowns believe even half of what they're plastering the internet with.

[HTG]

27 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Racists going absolutely fucking tonto at the moment.

 

[Michael W]

That's Andy Street out on, erm, the street. It would've been a total thumping if the pro-Gaza candidate hadn't been hoovering up Muslim votes. 

 

Edit: poor choice of words. 

Edited May 4 by Michael W

[ICTChris]

Just seeing some of Susan Hall’s campaign literature for the first time. It’s not that long since the Tory party were a renowned election winning machine. Now they go into a winnable election with this

 

[flyingscot]

1 hour ago, BFTD said:

Racists going absolutely fucking tonto at the moment.

Khan winning and upsetting some racists, weirdos and cab drivers is pleasing to see, especially as many of them were convinced he was gone. 

Hall was a terrible candidate, Tories have put up some woeful candidates and campaigns against Khan. Running on a driver's platform in a city where a high proportion don't drive is mad. 

[scottsdad]

11 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Just seeing some of Susan Hall’s campaign literature for the first time. It’s not that long since the Tory party were a renowned election winning machine. Now they go into a winnable election with this

 

She is wearing a blue straight jacket?

[BFTD]

12 minutes ago, flyingscot said:

Khan winning and upsetting some racists, weirdos and cab drivers is pleasing to see, especially as many of them were convinced he was gone. 

Hall was a terrible candidate, Tories have put up some woeful candidates and campaigns against Khan. Running on a driver's platform in a city where a high proportion don't drive is mad. 

Aye, it's an issue of importance to people who work in London but don't live there and, crucially, don't get a vote. Londoners generally fail to appreciate how stellar their public transport is, but they aren't stupid enough to think their lives would improve by having more cars driving about in the city. I lived there thirty years ago, long before the cyclists took over the roads, and the air quality was horrific during the hot summer months.

The "best watch out because the Muslamics are coming" subtext - which seems to have become overt in recent times - will also have fallen on deaf ears among actual Londoners who live among people of different ethnicities without problems, and will be another "issue" aimed more at Home Counties Tory voters, who still don't get a fucking vote.

I wonder if there'll be an attempt to expand voter registration to people who work in London too.

17 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Just seeing some of Susan Hall’s campaign literature for the first time. It’s not that long since the Tory party were a renowned election winning machine. Now they go into a winnable election with this

 

[strichener]

44 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Muslamics.

Was taken on a tour of Varosha which involved having a Turkish Cypriot guide.  He introduced me to the phrase Islamafascist which he used every time he mentioned Erdoğan.

It was quite unexpected as I thought the guide would have been vetted or a government actor like those used in communist countries.

[BFTD]

3 minutes ago, strichener said:

Was taken on a tour of Varosha which involved having a Turkish Cypriot guide.  He introduced me to the phrase Islamafascist which he used every time he mentioned Erdoğan.

It was quite unexpected as I thought the guide would have been vetted or a government actor like those used in communist countries.

Just Googled 'Islamofascist' and the first page had a hit that seems to describe how they want to bring about World War IV.

Curious to know why they're being polite enough to let someone else have a go at World War III first, but not curious enough to click.

[Freedom Farter]

That's funny how Labour ended up winning that West Midlands mayoral election so the "senior source" made his Hamas comment for no reason. Again, he needed named. BBC don't name these individuals because they argue they wouldn't get the quote otherwise, were they not to afford anonymity.

Well, sure, but how is it in the public interest to procure such an inflammatory quote? The "everyone is Hamas" shite is an existing narrative with repercussions far beyond a local election. As much as the Labour arsehole saying it was a problem, so was BBC boosting it.

[Freedom Farter]

On Erdogan and "islamofascism", mentioned above there:

Islamofascism isn't a useful term as it doesn't describe anything concrete we can actually observe in existence. When Chistopher Hitchens popularised it, he was using it as a propaganda term during Bush's War on Terror, which he supported. His American audience didn't know what "salafi jihadists" or even "Islamists" were but they had some idea of what a fascist was so Hitchens just spliced Islam and fascism together as a shortcut for relaying who "the baddies" were. However, a Turkish-Cypriot speaking English as a second language has probably just heard the term, unconnected to the Hitchens context, and thought it can loosely be applied to Erdogan. I'd argue he's wrong but not miles off.

You got Islamic (or maybe better described as just Muslim) fascists in WW2 from among the Bosniak ethnic group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)). Their Islamic identity was a very specific one wrapped up in Ottoman imperial identity. Erdogan has nothing to do with WW2 Bosniaks but he is often described as "neo-Ottoman". Yet he's also from an Islamist background. You can't get anywhere in mainstream Turkish politics with Islamism so he switched to promoting Islamic identity instead, which stops well short of theocracy. He blends the two, Islamic identity and Ottoman identity, into his own trademark mix.

Turkey has always had a secular fascism. The Grey Wolves group, most famously. Turkish society has done next to no introspection regarding historical Turkish atrocities. Its illegal to even publicly state the Armenian Genocide happened. For example, Hrant Dink was an (ethnic Armenian) Turkish journalist who was murdered by a vigilante while he was on trial for "denigrating Turkishness" in 2007 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Hrant_Dink).

You see this attitude playing out all the time in Turkish militarism. Not just northern Cypurs but also a large chunk of northern Syria are currently under Turkish occupation. You also have the treatment of the Kurds in Turkey as well as the support given to Azerbaijan to kill more Armenians. Turkey was also the largest state supporter of ISIS. Every single foreign recruit to ISIS arrived into Syria via the Turkish border which was deliberately left open. Interceptions were made of radio communications between the Turkish military and ISIS coordinating together how they'd attack Syrian Kurds.

Erdogan has been heading all this shite recently and its true he's applied an Islamic gloss to it which wasn't there previously. However, Turkish establishment malevolence long predates him. The secular elite are as guilty as the Islamic elite. 

[strichener]

3 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

On Erdogan and "islamofascism", mentioned above there:

Islamofascism isn't a useful term as it doesn't describe anything concrete we can actually observe in existence. When Chistopher Hitchens popularised it, he was using it as a propaganda term during Bush's War on Terror, which he supported. His American audience didn't know what "salafi jihadists" or even "Islamists" were but they had some idea of what a fascist was so Hitchens just spliced Islam and fascism together as a shortcut for relaying who "the baddies" were. However, a Turkish-Cypriot speaking English as a second language has probably just heard the term, unconnected to the Hitchens context, and thought it can loosely be applied to Erdogan. I'd argue he's wrong but not miles off.

You got Islamic (or maybe better described as just Muslim) fascists in WW2 from among the Bosniak ethnic group: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)). Their Islamic identity was a very specific one wrapped up in Ottoman imperial identity. Erdogan has nothing to do with WW2 Bosniaks but he is often described as "neo-Ottoman". Yet he's also from an Islamist background. You can't get anywhere in mainstream Turkish politics with Islamism so he switched to promoting Islamic identity instead, which stops well short of theocracy. He blends the two, Islamic identity and Ottoman identity, into his own trademark mix.

Turkey has always had a secular fascism. The Grey Wolves group, most famously. Turkish society has done next to no introspection regarding historical Turkish atrocities. Its illegal to even publicly state the Armenian Genocide happened. For example, Hrant Dink was an (ethnic Armenian) Turkish journalist who was murdered by a vigilante while he was on trial for "denigrating Turkishness" in 2007 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Hrant_Dink).

You see this attitude playing out all the time in Turkish militarism. Not just northern Cypurs but also a large chunk of northern Syria are currently under Turkish occupation. You also have the treatment of the Kurds in Turkey as well as the support given to Azerbaijan to kill more Armenians. Turkey was also the largest state supporter of ISIS. Every single foreign recruit to ISIS arrived into Syria via the Turkish border which was deliberately left open. Interceptions were made of radio communications between the Turkish military and ISIS coordinating together how they'd attack Syrian Kurds.

Erdogan has been heading all this shite recently and its true he's applied an Islamic gloss to it which wasn't there previously. However, Turkish establishment malevolence long predates him. The secular elite are as guilty as the Islamic elite. 

Just to be clear, the term was used by a Muslim who also happens to be Cypriot, speaks Turkish and is a retired scholar.  I would guess his day-to-day experiences would make him far more able to determine the appropriateness of the term than you or I.  

Although they are becoming the minority in Occupied Cyprus, the Turkish Cypriots mainly see themselves as Cypriot.  The tension between the two areas has been fostered by the Turkish Authorities encouraging Turks to move to Cyprus and impose their way of life in the Cypriots.  They may share a common language but their cultures are entirely different.  These activities have escalated under Erdoğan whilst at the same time the Turkish economy is being ruined.  Hence why a very well educated man is having to give up his free time to educate ignorant tourists like myself.

Edited May 5 by strichener

[flyingscot]

11 hours ago, BFTD said:

Aye, it's an issue of importance to people who work in London but don't live there and, crucially, don't get a vote. Londoners generally fail to appreciate how stellar their public transport is, but they aren't stupid enough to think their lives would improve by having more cars driving about in the city. I lived there thirty years ago, long before the cyclists took over the roads, and the air quality was horrific during the hot summer months.

The "best watch out because the Muslamics are coming" subtext - which seems to have become overt in recent times - will also have fallen on deaf ears among actual Londoners who live among people of different ethnicities without problems, and will be another "issue" aimed more at Home Counties Tory voters, who still don't get a fucking vote.

Exactly, might be an issue for cab drivers who commute from Essex or Slough into Central London and want to drive as fast as possible round the city, but those who live in inner London are supportive of safer traffic and cleaner air. 
 

Their win in Uxbridge when BoJo left, will have made them think it was right call. They did narrowly win Ealing and Hillingdon which is some of the same area and won other outer areas which might suggest Labour still has some issues with it there but don’t know if it will made a difference in a general election and probably forgotten about next time out. 
 

The Home Counties getting a vote raises its head ever now and again, but no real traction. The Greater London Boundary does have a some weird bits that normal countries would probably expand and fix but that would likely see the council tax go up in those areas so probably happy outside London when it suits them!

[Granny Danger]

Good to see the Labour Party treating the people of this new Scottish Parliamentary constituency with such respect.

A councillor from Canterbury in England has been selected as Labour’s candidate for Angus and Perthshire Glens, it can be revealed.

Elizabeth Carr-Ellis is a Labour councillor for St Stephen’s in Canterbury – over 500 miles from Angus in the South East of England.

But the party has given her its backing to standing for election in the newly formed Westminster constituency.

Currently represented by SNP MP Dave Doogan, the election is expected to be a fight between the nationalists and Conservative candidate Stephen Kerr.

Labour came fourth in the last General Election, securing less than 5% of votes and losing its deposit.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Good to see the Labour Party treating the people of this new Scottish Parliamentary constituency with such respect.

 

A councillor from Canterbury in England has been selected as Labour’s candidate for Angus and Perthshire Glens, it can be revealed.

Elizabeth Carr-Ellis is a Labour councillor for St Stephen’s in Canterbury – over 500 miles from Angus in the South East of England.

But the party has given her its backing to standing for election in the newly formed Westminster constituency.

Currently represented by SNP MP Dave Doogan, the election is expected to be a fight between the nationalists and Conservative candidate Stephen Kerr.

Labour came fourth in the last General Election, securing less than 5% of votes and losing its deposit.

She works for Hello magazine, so she'll have all the gossip when she goes knocking on doors. Step up from Kirstine Hair.

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

She works for Hello magazine, so she'll have all the gossip when she goes knocking on doors. Step up from Kirstine Hair.

Aye, I’m sure she’ll have a tale to tell…

[velo army]

On 04/05/2024 at 22:39, BFTD said:

I lived there thirty years ago, long before the cyclists took over the roads, and the air quality was horrific during the hot summer months.

 

Off topic, but after the 7/7 bombings cycling in London went up by about 250%. The lads on the cycling forum I was part of would always refer to these nouveau cyclistes as "bomb dodgers" and could be identified by generally being clueless about riding on the roads and were ironically safer on a potentially bombable tube train.