What is the point of Labour ?

[Monkey Tennis]

Hartlepool is clearly just one by-election, and such things can be notoriously strange.

It looks like council and mayoral elections might be delivering similar though.  

If so, it knackers the narrative about these votes just being loaned to the Tories in order to 'Get Brexit Done'.  It also dents any notion that it was simply Corbyn who proved unpalatable.  It's hard to see where Labour can turn.

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

That fails to appreciate that the landscape has changed down there after a referendum, sound familiar? 

Labour sat on the fence during the referendum and haven't shifted since.

Starmer is possibly worse than Corbyn because given a choice between a Tory and Tory Lite the voters are choosing the Tory.

If you spend years in local power and then do f**k all with it that doesn't help either.

Labour took working class voters for granted and then ran away from the debate over the EU.

Racism is also driving much of this - the elephant in the room - the reality is that UKIP and now the Tories are using it to get the votes.

Labour has pussy footed for years on the issue, too scared to upset their core voters.

[Mr Heliums]

3 hours ago, sparky88 said:

Exactly. Referendums in general cause political realignments. Labour still seem to be in denial that this has happened. Essentially the Tories copied the SNP's homework by ramping up the nationalism. Voting for the Tories to 'get Brexit done' is like voting for the SNP to 'get independence done'.

That's so simplistic. Look at voting trends for the past 20 years: a clear and pretty consistent trend towards the Conservatives in England, and the SNP in Scotland. There's an argument that the referendums only took place because political realignment was already happening.

And don't forget the SNP lost seats in the Scottish Parliament post-2014. The Conservatives lost seats in the first post-Brexit referendum.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Mr Heliums

[ayrmad]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Hartlepool is clearly just one by-election, and such things can be notoriously strange.

It looks like council and mayoral elections might be delivering similar though.  

If so, it knackers the narrative about these votes just being loaned to the Tories in order to 'Get Brexit Done'.  It also dents any notion that it was simply Corbyn who proved unpalatable.  It's hard to see where Labour can turn.

 

They could maybe come over to YES up here, they appear to be cream crackered down south for a few decades. 

[J_Stewart]

Labour no mark Steve Reed on the BBC doing the inevitable and still trying to blame “the left” losing the populace’s trust from 2019 for losing the Hartlepool seat.

This won’t just be spin. These losers will go about taking absolutely zero accountability when analysing this result rather than reflecting on the fact that Sur Keef is fucking useless, they haven’t opposed the Tories in anything meaningful for at least a year, and there’s not a human being alive that could actually tell you what this Labour Party stand for. They’ll go on making the same errors, and fall to the same level as the Lib Dems down in England, giving the Tories the right to govern for another miserable decade at least.

Sooner we can disengage from that fucking shit show the better.

[Dunning1874]

Biggest increase in vote share for a governing party in a Westminster by-election ever.

Labour are going to argue this is purely about Brexit Party voters moving to the Tories, with their increase of 23% corresponding with 24.6% drop for BP/Ref UK. However that doesn't explain Labour's vote share falling 9%, or that in numbers they've gone from 15,464 votes to 8589.

If Labour had even held onto their 2019 vote the Tory majority would only have been 65. If they'd gone back to 2017 levels they'd have a majority of over 5000. Instead, the Labour vote has collapsed and the Tory majority is 6940. Brexit doesn't explain 7000 Labour voters disappearing in two years.

Pasokification is actually happening.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Dunning1874

[Dons_1988]

The UK is going to be tory for a very long time, isn't it?

[sparky88]

19 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Pasokification is actually happening.

Let's hope it never happens in Scotland.

[jamamafegan]

[quote post="14438244" timestamp="1620369362" name="Dunning1874" userid="10614"
Pasokification is actually happening.


Had never heard of that until now. Why is it happening? It’s a sorry state of affairs.

[Highlandmagar]

42 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

The answer doesn't lie to the left. 

It certainly doesn't lie to the far right that England are going.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

It looks like Labour have disintegrated south of the border in the same way that they have in Scotland. Humiliating. 

It started under Corbyn, and his shameful unwillingness to take on the Tories over Brexit, and it's continued under Starmer and his bumbling inability to challenge and confront the most deceitful, incompetent, right-wing PM in UK history. 

Labour need to decide who they are and who they represent. Do they want to be the left-wing party that represents militant socialists but turns off the middle ground, or do they want to challenge for the middle ground and become the party of the many millions in England that are appalled by the Tories and want progressive, liberal government ?

They're caught in-between two stools at the moment, and the middle ground is being swallowed up by Brexity, right wing gammons while Labour flail around. 

I pity the good people of England. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Bob Mahelp

[doulikefish]

49 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Conservative majority of 6940
Labour
"Keith"

What an absolute binfire of a political party

 

[Monkey Tennis]

49 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

Conservative majority of 6940
Labour
"Keith"

What an absolute binfire of a political party

I don't really understand the glee about this.

[Highlandmagar]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

I don't really understand the glee about this.

Indeed. As Scottish voters seemingly shiting themselves over independence we are saddled with England for a long time. Depressing. 

[dirty dingus]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

I don't really understand the glee about this.

Maybe it will give the Labour supporters in Scotland a chance to change the direction of their party to move to a less hard nosed unionist view on the constitution instead of being the Tories yoon attack dogs.

 

[TheScarf]

21 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

The UK is going to be tory for a very long time, isn't it?

Yes, because English people have a raging hard on/wetty for war and cumming/squirting on flags and the current government are no different.

[Paco]

I’m not really a fan of him, but the obvious move to make for Labour, ideally right now, is to punt Starmer and bring in Andy Burnham.

It still wouldn’t be enough to win the next election, but he’d likely take back much of the ‘red wall’ if nothing else.

[J_Stewart]

I don't really understand the glee about this.

It’s funny because the exact same party had the chance to be a progressive force in British politics, provide a genuine left leaning option for the populace, but instead, knee capped themselves from inside, with the sabotage coming from centristcunts like Starmer. It’s the “you made your bed, filled it with hedgehogs and human faeces, and now I will laugh whilst you lie in it” principle.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

44 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

Biggest increase in vote share for a governing party in a Westminster by-election ever.

Labour are going to argue this is purely about Brexit Party voters moving to the Tories, with their increase of 23% corresponding with 24.6% drop for BP/Ref UK. However that doesn't explain Labour's vote share falling 9%, or that in numbers they've gone from 15,464 votes to 8589.

If Labour had even held onto their 2019 vote the Tory majority would only have been 65. If they'd gone back to 2017 levels they'd have a majority of over 5000. Instead, the Labour vote has collapsed and the Tory majority is 6940. Brexit doesn't explain 7000 Labour voters disappearing in two years.

Pasokification is actually happening.

This has less to do with the Labour Party, shambolic and supine as they are, and more to do with the English electorate, and almost all of it, plunging further down a right-wing dead end characterised by ignorance, xenophobia and beggar-thy-neighbour attitudes.  I had family in Hartlepool and frequented it when they weighed the vote for Labour's Ted Leadbitter.  But that was when people had jobs, trade union representation and above all a sense of political engagement and intelligence.  Sadly, swathes of England have now regressed to the 1930's - Mortimer could have read Mussolini on that Hartlepool ballot paper.

Edited May 7, 2021 by O'Kelly Isley III

[Dons_1988]

7 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Yes, because English people have a raging hard on/wetty for war and cumming/squirting on flags and the current government are no different.

You mean you didn't enjoy the French fishermen leaving at the end of their protest running away from her majesty's navy?