Strikers coming through

[Satoshi]

4 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

I haven’t heard of that country before. Where is it?

It's the United Kingdom plus Ireland.

I include Ireland in this as they have full right to live and work in the UK.

But the statement is incorrect, we are the same country as the United Kingdom. Which means that whilst we are only counting Scottish players as domestic, no other nation outside the British isles will have to do such a split.

As per the domestic ratio calculations I would expect that McGeady and McCarthy are counted as foreign players. Which is laughable.

[eez-eh]

8 minutes ago, Satoshi said:

It's the United Kingdom plus Ireland.

I include Ireland in this as they have full right to live and work in the UK.

But the statement is incorrect, we are the same country as the United Kingdom.

Thanks for clearing that up for everyone so swiftly. Panic over!

[dundeefc1783]

Stop spamming threads with absolute shite.

[Gordon EF]

6 hours ago, Satoshi said:

As pointed out above, the facts and statistics are totally clear there is no clear relationship between domestic player bias and international success.

You have absolutely no idea how to conduct a statistical analysis of this.

[Bing.McCrosby]

7 hours ago, velo army said:

Celtic got that one to keep, I think you'll find.

Mate any chance you could stop quoting him

[Satoshi]

45 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

You have absolutely no idea how to conduct a statistical analysis of this.

I do.

It would take a bit of time, but the data I've looked at so far makes it perfectly clear. Which is why I am not posting one sentence response, but rather breaking down what I think, and why.

[Molotov]

1 hour ago, Satoshi said:

I do.

It would take a bit of time, but the data I've looked at so far makes it perfectly clear. Which is why I am not posting one sentence response, but rather breaking down what I think, and why.

Take as long as you need. We all find it interesting  

[Gordon EF]

9 hours ago, Satoshi said:

I do.

It would take a bit of time, but the data I've looked at so far makes it perfectly clear. Which is why I am not posting one sentence response, but rather breaking down what I think, and why.

Well your first step was completely making up what people were actually saying. So forgive us if we're not convinced.

[Binos]

17 hours ago, Satoshi said:

If this was the case, then there would be a clear correlation between domestic player bias and success but there just isn't. 

Romania have only 33% foreigners in their domestic league, England have only 31% domestic players, does anyone want to guess who is better?

Russia, possibly Europe's bigger underperformers have 70% domestic player ratio. France, Europes top nation has 46%.

Just saying that because Croatia and Denmark have it, therefore that's why they are successful, is clearly incorrect as you haven't considered that the correlation doesn't exist in other nations. The more nations you look at it, the more tenuous (or straight up non existent) the connection between domestic player bias and international success is. To expand beyond Europe I compared Uruguay (biggest overachievers in SA) with Colombia (biggest underachievers in SA) and they have the same proportion of foreign players.

I would love it for you to put me on ignore and not to reply to my posts again, but we both know you're all talk and no action.

So until then, I'm happy to provide facts to counter balance your (typically factless) contributions. It's good to have balance.

As pointed out above, the facts and statistics are totally clear there is no clear relationship between domestic player bias and international success. Could it be a factor? Possibly, but it seems as likely to go the other way. In a truly competitive league domestic youngsters have to play against the best international players to earn their slot. And they do, Spain, Italy, Germany, France and England have the best foreign players in the world. And all have very strong national teams and their best young players are instantly thrown in the top level.

Compare that to a league with a very restrictive policy on foreign players (say the US). There are fewer foreigners, they probably aren't as good, and each nation has to have a defined number of domestic players. It creates a two tier system when Giovinco has to play with (and alongside) total haddies from US colleges who are on 1% of what he is on. The domestic players don't have to be that good to get in that team, they don't have to push themselves as much. Playing against less foreigners would usually mean a reversion to coaching orthodoxy and testing yourself against fewer styles of play. The very best nations, Spain, France etc. have their international players in all the top 5 European domestic leagues, having a mix of styles in your team helps a lot.

You could expand further on why protectionist policies in any industry is anti competitive. Do you think protectionism on the whole is a good concept? Should we rebuild the steel industry to compete with India?

But even anecdotally, how would this work in practice? What potential Scottish international calibre player is losing out on their place to a foreigner? Ryan Fraser, who is ok, was playing regularly at 16 years old when Aberdeen had amongst the biggest budget in the league.

Celtic, by far the richest club, also produces the most international players. Even if they don't make it straight away they do so elsewhere (Robertson for example).

Can anyone name a single player who hasn't become a Scotland international or hasn't fulfilled his potential because Johnny foreigner took his place? Logically it wouldn't happen, if he was going to be good enough he would play, and if he wasn't playing with, say, Celtic he would get a game with probably 10 other teams in the top league.

Again, sadly, zero chance he will actually block me.

Likes talking about it, though.

Theoretically, could increasing domestic player representation help a league? Possibly, but it certainly doesn't seem an issue in Scotland for the reasons listed above. There's additional complexities involved in not being able to limit British players anyway. If anything, I would say laxer work permit rules on non EU players have lifted the standard of the SPFL which has benefited our domestic players.

It's nothing to do with restrictions 

It's to do with the clubs opting to develop and give game time to more from their own youth systems, so they can sell them on for profit. And the players get better into the bargain 

Rather than the bankrupt,  and as evidenced by european performance, non achieving in any case model of getting in foreign,  many English,  mid twenty somethings who never have any sell on value and usually leave to Darlington 

Last non scot, a non old firm club, got a decent transfer fee was roman bednar, to west brom

[RandomGuy.]

31 minutes ago, Binos said:

Last non scot, a non old firm club, got a decent transfer fee was roman bednar, to west brom

Ones I can think of that were "decent" are...

We got over £1m for Ali McCann last season, the largest fee we've received up front since the 90s

Did Hibs not get £3m+ for Boyle?

If you want to claim theyre Scots, then Dykes moving for £2m counts as a non-Scot

Sam Cosgrove netted Aberdeen £2m

Motherwell get over £1m for Kipre

[Binos]

54 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Ones I can think of that were "decent" are...

We got over £1m for Ali McCann last season, the largest fee we've received up front since the 90s

Did Hibs not get £3m+ for Boyle?

If you want to claim theyre Scots, then Dykes moving for £2m counts as a non-Scot

Sam Cosgrove netted Aberdeen £2m

Motherwell get over £1m for Kipre

Are boyle and mccann not Scottish,  born bred come through our clubs youth systems 

You're right,  I forgot about Cosgrove,  he was Carlisle 

[Binos]

Scots transfer fees received by non old firm clubs, before you get to best foreigner sale, roman bednar

Craig Gordon 07/08 €10.82m

Scott Brown 07/08 €6.60m

James McCarthy 09/10 €5.10m

Calvin Ramsay 22/23 €4.90m

Steven Fletche 09/10 €4.70m

Josh Doig 22/23 €3.60m

Andrew Robertson 14/15 €3.60m

Lewis Ferguson 22/23 €3.50m

Martin Boyle 21/22 €3.45m

David Goodwillie 11/12 €3.40m

Scott McKenna 20/21 €3.27m

John McGinn 18/19 €3.10m

David Turnbull 20/21 €3.00m

Christophe Berra 08/09 €3.00m

Steven Whittaker 07/08 €3.00m

Kevin Thomson 06/07 €3.00m

Kenny Miller 00/01 €3.00m

Edited February 7, 2023 by Binos

[Satoshi]

5 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

Well your first step was completely making up what people were actually saying. So forgive us if we're not convinced.

Up to two sentences - congrats. I've explained in detail what I think and why, if people want to do the same then fine we can have a discussion.

Doesn't work if all the effort is on one side.

3 hours ago, Binos said:

It's nothing to do with restrictions 

It's to do with the clubs opting to develop and give game time to more from their own youth systems, so they can sell them on for profit. And the players get better into the bargain 

Rather than the bankrupt,  and as evidenced by european performance, non achieving in any case model of getting in foreign,  many English,  mid twenty somethings who never have any sell on value and usually leave to Darlington 

Last non scot, a non old firm club, got a decent transfer fee was roman bednar, to west brom

Well your last sentence is already been corrected.

And your idea that Scottish teams don't perform in Europe, relative to our size, is wildly inaccurate over pretty much any timeline. We are far ahead as best in class for nations of 6 million people or less, we are best in class for nations of 10 million people or less.

But even if your complaint was valid, it's been genuinely addressed by clubs this season who are bringing in players from Japan and Australia with increased sell on value. Why are Scottish clubs with equivalent league one budgets shopping in the British market rather than Brazil or Mexico? Take a wild guess. Scouting costs money and you can only really take players from leagues you are stronger than or can pay more than.

The fact that Scottish clubs, at least the old firm, can financially outperform clubs in Japan that has 22x the amount of people we have is nothing short of extraordinary. I suspect those going to non old firm clubs are doing it for the European experience and chance of English football, rather than necessarily being paid more (cost of living likely to be far less as well).

 

[Binos]

It's not getting addressed this season It's getting worse since we've left the eu

Our non old firm,  as I keep saying,  clubs will get no better and our national team will suffer 

[Bing.McCrosby]

21 minutes ago, Binos said:

It's not getting addressed this season It's getting worse since we've left the eu

Our non old firm,  as I keep saying,  clubs will get no better and our national team will suffer 

Ok, forget one guy with paragraphs nobody reads on the sky being red.

What do you think would be a solution, higher specified number of home grown players per match squad?

[velo army]

So what strikers are coming through lads?

[Pie Of The Month]

28 minutes ago, velo army said:

So what strikers are coming through lads?

Not sure but 60% of them are foreign.

[Binos]

44 minutes ago, Pie Of The Month said:

Not sure but 60% of them are foreign.

Zero strikers are coming through,  apologies for the digression but I think this is why 

[Gordopolis]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

So what strikers are coming to the BK drive-through lads?

FTFY

[afca32]

1 hour ago, velo army said:

So what strikers are coming through lads?

16 year old Alfie Bavidge made his Aberdeen debut at the weekend, Rory MacLeod and Ryan One playing regularly in the Premiership and Championship respectively at the same age. Josh O'Connor has played a couple of games for Hibs recently and his strike partner at youth level Ethan Laidlaw sounded like he had a great performance against Dortmund last night. Rory Wilson always pops up in these conversations and 15 year old Lewis Pirie of Aberdeen is being linked with a lot of big clubs. All very much prospects at the moment and I'm sure many will end up playing part time football rather than in the Champions League but hopefully a few of them can go on to have decent careers.