Strikers coming through

[GuyIncognito]

Tommy Conway scored for Bristol City tonight vs Ipswich. 

Should he be called up for the March friendlies and maybe give him 45 minutes vs Northern Ireland, or is it too soon for him?

[Gordopolis]

2 hours ago, GuyIncognito said:

Tommy Conway scored for Bristol City tonight vs Ipswich. 

Should he be called up for the March friendlies and maybe give him 45 minutes vs Northern Ireland, or is it too soon for him?

He looks like a decent medium term prospect, so there's not much to be lost by including him for the March friendlies.

He won't be at the Euros, but perhaps it'd be a decent idea with an eye on continuity beyond the current batch of strikers. 

Edited March 6 by Gordopolis

[RandomGuy.]

I dont see why you wouldnt try and see what level hes at and if he understands the system or will need a lot of work. He very much feels like one who'll be playing top level football within the next 2-3 years at worst, so ideally you want him integrated in and having caps by then either way. 

[Skyline Drifter]

23 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I dont see why you wouldnt try and see what level hes at and if he understands the system or will need a lot of work. He very much feels like one who'll be playing top level football within the next 2-3 years at worst, so ideally you want him integrated in and having caps by then either way. 

Should we not "plan for the future" once we've dealt with the present?

I wouldn't be calling up anyone in March or June who doesn't have a realistic shot at making the Euros squad except where it's potentially to cover injury in the expected squad. We're trying to prepare for our best shot in 25 years of getting beyond the group stages of a finals tournament, lets not be faffing about preparing for the next one.

Not saying Conway won't or shouldn't be called up, but if he is then it should only be because Stevie Clarke thinks there's a chance he might force his way in to the squad for Germany.

[RandomGuy.]

8 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Should we not "plan for the future" once we've dealt with the present?

I wouldn't be calling up anyone in March or June who doesn't have a realistic shot at making the Euros squad except where it's potentially to cover injury in the expected squad. We're trying to prepare for our best shot in 25 years of getting beyond the group stages of a finals tournament, lets not be faffing about preparing for the next one.

Not saying Conway won't or shouldn't be called up, but if he is then it should only be because Stevie Clarke thinks there's a chance he might force his way in to the squad for Germany.

Im kind of thinking these games are the least important in the next 12 months, so I'd rather see one or two players brought in to see how they get on for these rather than dumped into Nations League games. Dykes/Adams/Shankland etc., arent getting phased out due to age after the Euros like some might, so this would be a prime opportunity to try a younger striker with the main ones playing the Euros/Nations League fixtures.

[RandomGuy.]

Filip Skorb, a u16 Celtic striker, has switched from our youth sides to Poland. 

Poland have a scout based over here trying to poach youngsters that Scotland arent making a real push to make commit (Skorb has had call ups to our u16s but reportedly never had any explaination of a pathway, while Poland set things down by years/achievements).

Fran Franczak at St Johnstone another theyre trying to get.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Filip Skorb, a u16 Celtic striker, has switched from our youth sides to Poland. 

Poland have a scout based over here trying to poach youngsters that Scotland arent making a real push to make commit (Skorb has had call ups to our u16s but reportedly never had any explaination of a pathway, while Poland set things down by years/achievements).

Fran Franczak at St Johnstone another theyre trying to get.

If he feels Polish rather than Scottish that's fine.

I'm wholly unconvinced by this "explanation of a pathway" nonsense though. What explanation do you need? Here's the deal mate. You get picked at 16's, do well, get a bit older, you'll progress to 17's, 18's 19's 21's and then full team in time. Do really well you might skip a level or two and go straight up (see Gilmour, Billy). There. Job done. I've explained it for him.

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'm wholly unconvinced by this "explanation of a pathway" nonsense though. What explanation do you need? 

Ask Filip Skorb and his family, clearly his/their preference is to have a more in depth progression points than simpy "play well".

[gannonball]

9 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

If he feels Polish rather than Scottish that's fine.

I'm wholly unconvinced by this "explanation of a pathway" nonsense though. What explanation do you need? 

The polish are renowned for providing a cleaner path TBF.

[albagubrath]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

If he feels Polish rather than Scottish that's fine.

I'm wholly unconvinced by this "explanation of a pathway" nonsense though. What explanation do you need? Here's the deal mate. You get picked at 16's, do well, get a bit older, you'll progress to 17's, 18's 19's 21's and then full team in time. Do really well you might skip a level or two and go straight up (see Gilmour, Billy). There. Job done. I've explained it for him.

Scotland should be clearly setting out things like:

• The philosophy and system of the national teams and the place of each player in it including the position the SFA see them playing in, the kind of attributes important to the way that we play and the skills we expect to see delivered within the system employed
• A set of shared goals and KPIs that are understandable and achievable at each step in the development of the player, covering physical, mental and skills based development so both player and coaches are clear on what is required and when
• A clear outline of which resources the player will have access to and when through that development journey
• A talent development specialist who the player has as a key SFA contact that will monitor their development closely and constantly, keeping in touch on their progress and providing feedback on how they are progressing towards shared goals

 

Generally I kind of agree that the full pathway isn't required for international football, that should be the responsibility of the club more than anyone as they are broadly in charge of their development. Nevertheless, showing a player why they are more likely to succeed in our system of another nation's is important because it shows we know what we are doing. The problem, of course, is we appear to have no fucking idea what we are doing and everyone can see it, hence the steady stream of talented players leaving our game in their early teens.

[velo army]

1 minute ago, albagubrath said:

Scotland should be clearly setting out things like:

• The philosophy and system of the national teams and the place of each player in it including the position the SFA see them playing in, the kind of attributes important to the way that we play and the skills we expect to see delivered within the system employed
• A set of shared goals and KPIs that are understandable and achievable at each step in the development of the player, covering physical, mental and skills based development so both player and coaches are clear on what is required and when
• A clear outline of which resources the player will have access to and when through that development journey
• A talent development specialist who the player has as a key SFA contact that will monitor their development closely and constantly, keeping in touch on their progress and providing feedback on how they are progressing towards shared goals

 

Generally I kind of agree that the full pathway isn't required for international football, that should be the responsibility of the club more than anyone as they are broadly in charge of their development. Nevertheless, showing a player why they are more likely to succeed in our system of another nation's is important because it shows we know what we are doing. The problem, of course, is we appear to have no fucking idea what we are doing and everyone can see it, hence the steady stream of talented players leaving our game in their early teens.

Entirely this.

Having utter shite coaching our unders is a clear statement that we haven't learned that much in the last few decades. 

What you posted above makes my heart sink because it would obviously be a motivation for someone already fairly committed to Scotland to actually be excited about it. We've had a dynamic demographic for years now and a lot of our youngsters coming through will be eligible for other countries. We need to be selling ourselves better.

[Skyline Drifter]

34 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Ask Filip Skorb and his family, clearly his/their preference is to have a more in depth progression points than simpy "play well".

Or perhaps they just feel "Polish"?
 

26 minutes ago, albagubrath said:

Scotland should be clearly setting out things like:

• The philosophy and system of the national teams and the place of each player in it including the position the SFA see them playing in, the kind of attributes important to the way that we play and the skills we expect to see delivered within the system employed
• A set of shared goals and KPIs that are understandable and achievable at each step in the development of the player, covering physical, mental and skills based development so both player and coaches are clear on what is required and when
• A clear outline of which resources the player will have access to and when through that development journey
• A talent development specialist who the player has as a key SFA contact that will monitor their development closely and constantly, keeping in touch on their progress and providing feedback on how they are progressing towards shared goals

 

Generally I kind of agree that the full pathway isn't required for international football, that should be the responsibility of the club more than anyone as they are broadly in charge of their development. Nevertheless, showing a player why they are more likely to succeed in our system of another nation's is important because it shows we know what we are doing. The problem, of course, is we appear to have no fucking idea what we are doing and everyone can see it, hence the steady stream of talented players leaving our game in their early teens.

Aye ok, I was being slightly facetious, but it's not rocket science. And no matter what KPI's etc you might set, you can't guarantee progression. There might be a half dozen other players in the country at your age and progression who achieve better KPI's and get picked ahead of him.

Do we know they're not clearly setting these things out? I don't know anything about Filip Skorb, I'd never heard of him before this thread, but I'm guessing from his name either he or at least his parents, are Polish born. Perhaps he got lots of advice and explanations but just wants to represent the country of his heritage (a la McTominay) and the "clear pathway" line is just something to rationalise it with?

[2426255]

2 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Or perhaps they just feel "Polish"?
 

Aye ok, I was being slightly facetious, but it's not rocket science. And no matter what KPI's etc you might set, you can't guarantee progression. There might be a half dozen other players in the country at your age and progression who achieve better KPI's and get picked ahead of him.

Do we know they're not clearly setting these things out? I don't know anything about Filip Skorb, I'd never heard of him before this thread, but I'm guessing from his name either he or at least his parents, are Polish born. Perhaps he got lots of advice and explanations but just wants to represent the country of his heritage (a la McTominay) and the "clear pathway" line is just something to rationalise it with?

It's about marginal gains, swinging those who are open to being swung. I agree with you in your general outlook. Unfortunately the argument and maybe the reality is coming from the perspective of maximizing every little detail partly because the competition is doing it. 

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Or perhaps they just feel "Polish"?

I follow the scout on Twitter who explicitly stated it was their future planning that persuaded him to switch sides.

[craigkillie]

6 hours ago, albagubrath said:

Scotland should be clearly setting out things like:

• The philosophy and system of the national teams and the place of each player in it including the position the SFA see them playing in, the kind of attributes important to the way that we play and the skills we expect to see delivered within the system employed
• A set of shared goals and KPIs that are understandable and achievable at each step in the development of the player, covering physical, mental and skills based development so both player and coaches are clear on what is required and when
• A clear outline of which resources the player will have access to and when through that development journey
• A talent development specialist who the player has as a key SFA contact that will monitor their development closely and constantly, keeping in touch on their progress and providing feedback on how they are progressing towards shared goals

 

Generally I kind of agree that the full pathway isn't required for international football, that should be the responsibility of the club more than anyone as they are broadly in charge of their development. Nevertheless, showing a player why they are more likely to succeed in our system of another nation's is important because it shows we know what we are doing. The problem, of course, is we appear to have no fucking idea what we are doing and everyone can see it, hence the steady stream of talented players leaving our game in their early teens.

 

We have performance schools where I'd assume our best youngsters are getting the majority of these things (hopefully without the wanky business speak language around it).

[peebles_Dee]

Bavidge, Wilson and Loney seem to have potential from the age groups. I thought MacLeod would have kicked on more

[albagubrath]

18 hours ago, craigkillie said:

 

We have performance schools where I'd assume our best youngsters are getting the majority of these things (hopefully without the wanky business speak language around it).

If you think that qualifies as wanky business speak you'd struggle in my office 

The kid in question is a celtic youth so presumably is at their affiliated school (St Ninian's?) rather than a performance school. I think you are right that the Performance School kids may have access to that kind of stuff (i really hope they do) but I can't imagine they'll have much SFA contact at non-affiliated schools other than when they turn up to national squads. That is the gap that could be filled with, frankly, not that much effort. There are probably fewer than 100 boys in any given year who are in and around national team unders squads but not in performance schools.

[Ewanandmoreagain]

We have " lost " too many players who are qualified to play for us , one way or another .

Ray Houghton , Harry Souttar and Elliot Anderson.

It has to stop !

[afca32]

Rory Wilson being linked with Leipzig and Inter.

[BroraBoy]

On 05/03/2024 at 23:40, Gordopolis said:

He looks like a decent medium term prospect, so there's not much to be lost by including him for the March friendlies.

He won't be at the Euros, but perhaps it'd be a decent idea with an eye on continuity beyond the current batch of strikers. 

Conway did go to Spain along with Bowat last June, for that summer camp before Norway away  

I think he has lost his way this season, injured early on in the season but some say his best pal / house mate moving to Bournemouth has had an effect! 

Would Clarke do something similar, very unlikely as he is now beyond predictable! But bringing U21’s along to the Euro’s to train and be part of the set up would imo quite a nice touch! Obviously not part of the 23 man squad but some may argue that if you can score a couple of goals between now and end of May you might get in?? 

I'm sure Craig Brown took some young team along to France 98’ 

Simon Donnelly rings a bell, maybe some others could share / enlighten us on this…..