Pyramid 2019/2020

[Burnie_man]

11 minutes ago, Enigma said:

I’m in two minds really. On the one hand it makes no fucking sense having two leagues with (roughly) the same geographical remit at the same rung on the ladder. I do however thing it’s better having these clubs in the tent that outside. Perhaps once in and after a season or two there can be a bigger all encompassing overhaul, which would be much easier to achieve if the clubs are already in the pyramid. The Dundee clubs should move north imo, otherwise you’d be looking at weighting future promotion places from tier 5 heavily in the LL favour. I don’t think this is a step back, however bad it looks.

I can understand that point of view but here’s the rub, in that scenario you still have the EoS and the ERJFA operating separately and reporting to differing governing bodies, with TJ in job preservation mode at the SJFA.  I can guarantee you they will not have any reason to merge with the EoS, it will be seen as a victory and they will cling to their separate association for as long as they can, they will continue to consider themselves Juniors, meanwhile we have a divide running through Lothians and Fife which is unacceptable to many clubs.

We need to get this right now, not in the future, but now so we can put all this to bed and get on with the football. A complete clusterfuck of a “solution” just means this carries on unresolved for years and clubs suffer because of it. You would no doubt get clubs moving back and forth between EoS and ERJFA which would be madness.

All this takes is for the SFA/PWG say to TJ that they will accept the WRJFA into the Pyramid, they will accept the NRJFA into the Pyramid, but in the East the ERJFA need to be absorbed by the EoS.  The Tayside clubs can form their own league and be administered by the SJFA until an agree solution is in place between HFL/NRJFA/Tayside, or as a temporary solution for next season the Tayside clubs are in some way involved in the EoS until they move north.

That’s your solution, that’s your way forward.  If TJ doesn’t like it, then no deal and go ahead and form a brand new WoSFL and invite applications, and let the ERJFA die a slow natural death as clubs leave for the EoS.

[Marten]

16 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

I can understand that point of view but here’s the rub, in that scenario you still have the EoS and the ERJFA operating separately and reporting to differing governing bodies, with TJ in job preservation mode at the SJFA.  I can guarantee you they will not have any reason to merge with the EoS, it will be seen as a victory and they will cling to their separate association for as long as they can, they will continue to consider themselves Juniors, meanwhile we have a divide running through Lothians and Fife which is unacceptable to many clubs.

We need to get this right now, not in the future, but now so we can put all this to bed and get on with the football. A complete clusterfuck of a “solution” just means this carries on unresolved for years and clubs suffer because of it. You would no doubt get clubs moving back and forth between EoS and ERJFA which would be madness.

All this takes is for the SFA/PWG say to TJ that they will accept the WRJFA into the Pyramid, they will accept the NRJFA into the Pyramid, but in the East the ERJFA need to be absorbed by the EoS.  The Tayside clubs can form their own league and be administered by the SJFA until an agree solution is in place between HFL/NRJFA/Tayside, or as a temporary solution for next season the Tayside clubs are in some way involved in the EoS until they move north.

That’s your solution, that’s your way forward.  If TJ doesn’t like it, then no deal and go ahead and form a brand new WoSFL and invite applications, and let the ERJFA die a slow natural death as clubs leave for the EoS.

A potential no-deal scenario because one side is shouting about what they will "definitely" get without checking how realistic that is and what conditions exist.

Now, where have I heard that before???

[Enigma]

Yeah, as a permanent solution it’s clearly bonkers, then so is the SOSFL being at tier 6. As a temporary stopgap while the Tayside issue is sorted I would have thought it would be fine for a couple of seasons, you’d obviously need assurances from all parties that integration is the aim of the game.

[Burnie_man]

3 minutes ago, Marten said:

A potential no-deal scenario because one side is shouting about what they will "definitely" get without checking how realistic that is and what conditions exist.

Now, where have I heard that before???

Pretty much.   Like everything in life there needs to be give and take to make progress.

Allow the SJFA to exist inside the Pyramid in the West and North, in return for that, they have to allow the EoS to continue as the only Senior league in the East which all clubs need to move to.  There's your deal.

[honestly united]

If the ER juniors become a feeder to the LL, doesn't that leave the SFA open to legal action given that clubs from above the LL/HL line were told they couldn't join the EoS last year as they were outside their area?

Even if this is true, my likely take on what will happen is that the west takes care of itself, although long term what happens with SoS is up for debate. The west having 4 region wide divisions is not really a pyramid structure so potential for merging is possible at some point in the future.

In the east I can see them running a parallel East Junior league at tiers 6 & 7 next year which champions playing off for the right to enter LL playoff, then final league positions being used to merge the 2 leagues into one for 20/21. Those clubs close to the boundary given a choice whether they go north or south.

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

By the ways news from PWG/PGB meetings have been passed on to the EoS membership it's quite clear the EoS are fighting it.

Unfortunately everyone else seems okay with it, otherwise why would Ian Maxwell be drafting a statement on the matter.

Hopefully it all gets bogged down in the details at this Nov 14th meeting or enough public disenfranchisement can scupper it like 12-12 into 8-8-8.

Yeh but by his own admis sion he doesn't know non league he could well think ersjfa is just Tayside 

[Jason King]

1 hour ago, Marten said:

A potential no-deal scenario because one side is shouting about what they will "definitely" get without checking how realistic that is and what conditions exist.

Now, where have I heard that before???

The "YES" side of the Scottish Independence referendum

Edited October 29, 2018 by Jason King

[superbigal]

1 hour ago, Marten said:

A potential no-deal scenario because one side is shouting about what they will "definitely" get without checking how realistic that is and what conditions exist.

Now, where have I heard that before???

On the flip side The EOS being against something, is hardly likely to stop it if the wheels are in motion.

[FairWeatherFan]

17 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Yeh but by his own admis sion he doesn't know non league he could well think ersjfa is just Tayside 

It's quite explicit in the draft statement that it would be the existing west & East Junior Leagues will have connectivity to the Lowland League.

Whatever ignorance he may well have had over the non-league taking the post will have been raised during all this.

Unfortunately with the likes of Alan McRae and TJ there the EoS issues are probably being drowned out. 

 

[Burnie_man]

23 minutes ago, superbigal said:

On the flip side The EOS being against something, is hardly likely to stop it if the wheels are in motion.

It's hardly likely to bring consensus either, which is required before progress can be made.  I think we also need to factor in the likelihood that Maxwell doesn't fully grasp the situation here, the email is evidence of that.

There is a simple and straightforward solution as I detailed earlier, if TJ can for a second think of the greater good rather than self preservation and posturing, we might get a sensible agreement over the line in time for next season.

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Burnie_man

[AlanCamelonfan]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

It's hardly likely to bring consensus either, which is required before progress can be made.  I think we also need to factor in the likelihood that Maxwell doesn't fully grasp the situation here, the email is evidence of that.

There is a simple and straightforward solution as I detailed earlier, if TJ can for a second think of the greater good rather than self preservation and posturing, we might get a sensible agreement over the line in time for next season.

 

But who's to say he wouldn't have a role in one of the new set ups

[Burnie_man]

11 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

But who's to say he wouldn't have a role in one of the new set ups

He probably will, but he needs to get real over the future of the East Region.

[cmontheloknow]

3 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

But who's to say he wouldn't have a role in one of the new set ups

But why would he? He's not an official of the West, North or East regions. He administers a diminished national cup and deals with reinstatements - other duties no doubt exist too but the bulk of what is done is done by regional secretaries. I suppose it's feasible that if the SJFA disbands and he wishes to have continued involvement, he could replace Scott Robertson as the West secretary now that the fixtures responsibility lies elsewhere. His experience would be welcome but clearly it's a part-time role.

[AlanCamelonfan]

14 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

But why would he? He's not an official of the West, North or East regions. He administers a diminished national cup and deals with reinstatements - other duties no doubt exist too but the bulk of what is done is done by regional secretaries. I suppose it's feasible that if the SJFA disbands and he wishes to have continued involvement, he could replace Scott Robertson as the West secretary now that the fixtures responsibility lies elsewhere. His experience would be welcome but clearly it's a part-time role.

I'm only putting it out there

[GNU_Linux]

Not directly related to the east but a general question. Is the attachment to the junior label/grade as strong up north as it is in the east/west?

[Marten]

12 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:

Not directly related to the east but a general question. Is the attachment to the junior label/grade as strong up north as it is in the east/west?

From what I heard: no, not even close. It seems to me that they just want to play football in their area against teams their level and don't really care about the label attached to it.

[Burnie_man]

Well, well, well, the other things going on in the background have come to light courtesy of Civil Service Strollers twitter.   Lowland League 2 working group formed.

[GNU_Linux]

Well, well, well, the other things going on in the background have come to light courtesy of Civil Service Strollers twitter.   Lowland League 2 working group formed.

All in league or east/west divisions?

[Burnie_man]

2 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

3 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Well, well, well, the other things going on in the background have come to light courtesy of Civil Service Strollers twitter.   Lowland League 2 working group formed.

All in league or east/west divisions?

Doesn't say, just said that their proposal for a LL2 was passed and a working group formed, they hope to make progress in the coming months.  

[Marten]

13 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Doesn't say, just said that their proposal for a LL2 was passed and a working group formed, they hope to make progress in the coming months.  

Maybe that's a sign that they're trying to get the Tayside teams on board by splitting the LL into East/West? As you already said, a boundary change north needs to be combined with that...