Pyramid 2019/2020

[locheeboy]

9 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

10 hours ago, locheeboy said:

Al, ask Burnieman  to  publish the minutes from  the EoS that was sent out on Thursday .......................... 

I did, you're making an arse of youself again.

Burnie, you only published part of the minutes, you left out the interesting paragraph. Be a good honest chap and put the full minutes up. 

[AlanCamelonfan]

13 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I like it. It's just right now, where's the motivation for the East Region Super League clubs to accept going beneath the East of Scotland Premier? Supposedly they'll have equal standing with the new EoS Premier and retain Junior status. From their point of view they'd be giving up their identity and standing with nothing in return.

But what is it about keeping junior status what is the point as they have to move to sfa disciplinary which seems to have been a problem for some. They will have to be finished by end of April so where is the benefit of being Joonyur 

[Burnie_man]

15 minutes ago, locheeboy said:

Burnie, you only published part of the minutes, you left out the interesting paragraph. Be a good honest chap and put the full minutes up. 

I have no idea what you're referring to, maybe you can enlighten everyone as to what on earth you're going on about.

Fact is, you've been a bit of an idiot (again) in posting up that email and a lot of people aren't too chuffed.  Let's see how this plays out, you might be disappointed.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Burnie_man

[FairWeatherFan]

8 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

But what is it about keeping junior status what is the point as they have to move to sfa disciplinary which seems to have been a problem for some. They will have to be finished by end of April so where is the benefit of being Joonyur 

You'd have to ask them! As far as i'm concerned as soon as the junior leagues sign up to the pyramid they lose their independence and just become another senior league. There's no need for the SJFA as a body at that point.

You can understand why the East Region are clutching to the idea though. It's their way of avoiding the Highland League and for the likes of Lochee United & Broughty Athletic to be on equal standing to traditional competition now in the EoS.

[AlanCamelonfan]

31 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You'd have to ask them! As far as i'm concerned as soon as the junior leagues sign up to the pyramid they lose their independence and just become another senior league. There's no need for the SJFA as a body at that point.

You can understand why the East Region are clutching to the idea though. It's their way of avoiding the Highland League and for the likes of Lochee United & Broughty Athletic to be on equal standing to traditional competition now in the EoS.

What would be better is east to join eoafl and have Tayside league and if you wanted perth and the rest. Rather than whitburn and Blackburn being in different set ups. I think maxwell probably thinks ersjfa is tayside

[FairWeatherFan]

8 hours ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

What would be better is east to join eoafl and have Tayside league and if you wanted perth and the rest. Rather than whitburn and Blackburn being in different set ups. I think maxwell probably thinks ersjfa is tayside

I think at this point all the SFA cares about is getting the West Region on board for a proper West of Scotland feeder. Then they can forget about the pyramid and call it job done.

To do that the SFA is pandering to the SJFA's united front of Tier 6 across their regions.

Edited October 28, 2018 by FairWeatherFan
forgot to forget

[cmontheloknow]

19 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

What would be better is east to join eoafl and have Tayside league and if you wanted perth and the rest. Rather than whitburn and Blackburn being in different set ups. I think maxwell probably thinks ersjfa is tayside

I don't think there is an issue with that outcome necessarily apart from it not fitting the current footprints of the LL/HL/EoS. That is adjustable BUT it then leads to the potential fixtures in LL of Montrose v Stranraer, should they both fall on hard times. The current HL/LL divide is not ideal for all but that's the nature of Scotland's geography. There is going to be a period of readjustment as things settle and whatever we have next season I'd wager is not what we'll have in ten years time. I don't see the 'all in' West leagues lasting, and when that is re-evaluated, it would be the perfect time to reassess the South of Scotland League's place in the natural order.  As for the northern half, which includes Dundee (and perhaps could also include Perth), a Tayside feeder and a North feeder into the Highland. That will not be what we have next season but the PWG should have a route map and an ultimate destination.

Edited October 28, 2018 by cmontheloknow

[AlanCamelonfan]

15 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

I don't think there is an issue with that outcome necessarily apart from it not fitting the current footprints of the LL/HL/EoS. That is adjustable BUT it then leads to the potential fixtures in LL of Montrose v Stranraer, should they both fall on hard times. The current HL/LL divide is not ideal for all but that's the nature of Scotland's geography. There is going to be a period of readjustment as things settle and whatever we have next season I'd wager is not what we'll have in ten years time. I don't see the 'all in' West leagues lasting, and when that is re-evaluated, it would be the perfect time to reassess the South of Scotland League's place in the natural order.  As for the northern half, which includes Dundee (and perhaps could also include Perth), a Tayside feeder and a North feeder into the Highland. That will not be what we have next season but the PWG should have a route map and an ultimate destination.

Someone was slating me on scott Campbell page for not knowing geography. Dundee is 1 hr 15 mins from Aberdeen.  2 hrs 30 from Inverness.  They r 2 hrs 30 from Gretna and 2 hrs 45 from Dalbeattie so I would say itsomething touch and go. It's probably because the road infrastructure suits south travel than north I don't know but to me should be north. West whether u call it sjfa or wosfl it amounts to the same thing 

[cmontheloknow]

1 hour ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Someone was slating me on scott Campbell page for not knowing geography. Dundee is 1 hr 15 mins from Aberdeen.  2 hrs 30 from Inverness.  They r 2 hrs 30 from Gretna and 2 hrs 45 from Dalbeattie so I would say itsomething touch and go. It's probably because the road infrastructure suits south travel than north I don't know but to me should be north. West whether u call it sjfa or wosfl it amounts to the same thing 

Absolutely - the Dundee clubs could go north with no eye-wateringly great difference to their potential travels in the LL. Also bear in mind that if any of them went up, some of the stragglers would be down - so no trips to Fort William! But Wick and Brora will likely be on the menu once a season. It is though just that - once a season.

[FairWeatherFan]

A visual idea of how it could all look come 2019/20.

  

[EdinburghBlue]

Just to bring everyone up to date regarding the Juniors coming in  at Tier 6 from next season. Email sent out today from Ian Maxwell Chief Exec SFA

Either a forgery or an utterly stupid decision and Maxwell should resign.

[Burnie_man]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

A visual idea of how it could all look come 2019/20.

  

It wont look like that in the East.

[Black & Red Socks]

12 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

A visual idea of how it could all look come 2019/20.

  

If this was what was to come to pass in the east, and I'd be pretty confident that it wouldn't be acceptable to the EoSFL or Lowland League member clubs and therefore is a very unlikely scenario, then it is entirely ludicrous to have two separate leagues that overlap the same geographical area simply to satisfy a Junior organisation that wants to retain a self serving identity and that has had to be dragged into the future kicking and screaming at every singly step.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Of course the Dundee clubs should be moved to the north, they are needed to balance up the HL/LL divide, you have the HL with a fraction of the Lowland population with disproportionate access to the pyramid, gotta draw the line somewhere and it’s only right we tell the dundee clubs to sling their hooks.

[Black & Red Socks]

With due deference to all the discussions on this topic in the past and to the intricacies of where to draw appropriate geographical boundaries, this is merely an alternative visual representation of what I would suggest is a far more suitable and sensible way to bring the Juniors into the Pyramid in the east - by merging them with the current EoSFL. Apologies for the 'rebranding' of the South of Scotland League etc for the purposes of consistency across the divisions.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, Black & Red Socks said:

If this was what was to come to pass in the east, and I'd be pretty confident that it wouldn't be acceptable to the EoSFL or Lowland League member clubs and therefore is a very unlikely scenario, then it is entirely ludicrous to have two separate leagues that overlap the same geographical area simply to satisfy a Junior organisation that wants to retain a self serving identity and that has had to be dragged into the future kicking and screaming at every singly step.

By the ways news from PWG/PGB meetings have been passed on to the EoS membership it's quite clear the EoS are fighting it.

Unfortunately everyone else seems okay with it, otherwise why would Ian Maxwell be drafting a statement on the matter.

Hopefully it all gets bogged down in the details at this Nov 14th meeting or enough public disenfranchisement can scupper it like 12-12 into 8-8-8.

[Enigma]

I’m in two minds really. On the one hand it makes no fucking sense having two leagues with (roughly) the same geographical remit at the same rung on the ladder. I do however thing it’s better having these clubs in the tent that outside. Perhaps once in and after a season or two there can be a bigger all encompassing overhaul, which would be much easier to achieve if the clubs are already in the pyramid. The Dundee clubs should move north imo, otherwise you’d be looking at weighting future promotion places from tier 5 heavily in the LL favour. I don’t think this is a step back, however bad it looks.

[12 Angry Men]

1 hour ago, Black & Red Socks said:

With due deference to all the discussions on this topic in the past and to the intricacies of where to draw appropriate geographical boundaries, this is merely an alternative visual representation of what I would suggest is a far more suitable and sensible way to bring the Juniors into the Pyramid in the east - by merging them with the current EoSFL. Apologies for the 'rebranding' of the South of Scotland League etc for the purposes of consistency across the divisions.

The means of implementation may very well be fraught with challenges, but surely this is the way the PWG and those charged with growing and running our game should be aiming to go?

[Marten]

14 minutes ago, Enigma said:

I’m in two minds really. On the one hand it makes no fucking sense having two leagues with (roughly) the same geographical remit at the same rung on the ladder. I do however thing it’s better having these clubs in the tent that outside. Perhaps once in and after a season or two there can be a bigger all encompassing overhaul, which would be much easier to achieve if the clubs are already in the pyramid. The Dundee clubs should move north imo, otherwise you’d be looking at weighting future promotion places from tier 5 heavily in the LL favour. I don’t think this is a step back, however bad it looks.

Largely agreed with that. The only way how I can say the EoS agreeing to this if they agree to bring the 2 East leagues together within a certain timeframe. If it's meant to be a temporary step toward full integration it's fine, but 2 east feeders shouldn't exist for the longer term.

It does make most sense indeed to have the Dundee clubs in the HL. I don't see the large issue from a traveling perspective either. Most HL clubs are in the Aberdeen area. That's easier to get to from Dundee than the Borders for example.

[Che Dail]

23 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

Absolutely - the Dundee clubs could go north with no eye-wateringly great difference to their potential travels in the LL. Also bear in mind that if any of them went up, some of the stragglers would be down - so no trips to Fort William! But Wick and Brora will likely be on the menu once a season. It is though just that - once a season.

Here's my offering... reduce the top tiers to 3 pro leagues by pulling SPFL2 into the regional set-up and split the LL East & West (3 leagues of 16) at T4. 

Note that the West Premier could sit at tier 5 with the SoS at tier 6, in time.  And the Dundee clubs would form the EoS / Juniors North feeder into the EoS Premier unless they want to filter into the North Region and HL.

There should be more focus on best v best at the top levels of the pyramid, and at the lower end there's a top regional division to aspire to at Tier 4. 

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Che Dail