Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[dirty dingus]

Around my way most people are trying there best in lockdown. No clapping or anything like that and most observing social distancing.  If the weather is good I'll go out and sit in the garden with my old man who is shielding for an hour. The neighbours will come out to say hello and raise his spirits. There is no way total self isolation is good for mental health but anyone with a modicum of common sense can understand how to bend the rules without being a c**t. Grand weans coming into the garden to say hello at distance is fine in my book. It's time the Scots govt started realising were not all about to descend on beauty spots or join radical right wing groups to get a picnic and a bit of fresh air. Golfing, hiking,bowls etc should all be fine. Drinking in Cheers is a no no. 

[heedthebaa]

1 hour ago, Tony Ferrino said:

You’re rightish,  but the fm will  actually acknowledge mistakes have been made, and that’s very important going forward.

Seen her admitting this today on TV  in hollyrood. Way back when this shit started, a staunch unionist I was speaking to, that’s hates her with a passion, said that he would trust her before all others during this. Mistakes were always going to be made

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 minute ago, Michael W said:

Same here. Third week in a row as well. 

Just imagine how bad the applause/noise/general shite would be if we ended up having a war. 

I'd prefer it if the Russians detonated a Tsar Bomba over Tayside tbh

[flood]

20 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

It's not a scandal. There is no point in testing asymptomatic health and care staff. If they have symptoms they should be isolating and booking a test. The current test just confirms if you've got the virus, not that you've had it or not.

Care workers are carrying coved into care homes. Going from person to person. Spending 15 minutes providing care.... isolated residents have not passed to care worker. 

 

To do nothing is wrong

 

the WHO said months ago.... Test test test. We have not followed that 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by flood

[peasy23]

[peasy23]

[KnightswoodBear]

Those fascists do love their heroes.  Dead ones, preferably. 

[pandarilla]

Those fascists do love their heroes.  Dead ones, preferably. 

f**k me is that really their front page?

I thought it was just crazy right wing journalist.

[vikingTON]

Schools are an important test case for lots of other workplaces where social distancing advice is completely impractical. If the government loses this fight then its wider back to work agenda is going to flounder. 

Teachers would be quite right to refuse to work in schools under the useless 'just try and keep the weans two metres apart at all times' protocol. The way out of this scenario though is not to keep schools closed indefinitely but rather to replace social distancing with compulsory face mask use as the primary means of preventing contagion. The complete impracticality of the current advice within schools also applies to commercial airlines, all public transport, colleges/universities, bars, restaurants and last but not least professional sport as well. Get social distancing in the sea and adopt masks as part of a fully functional 'new normal' instead.

Edited May 15, 2020 by vikingTON

[Dunning1874]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

Schools are an important test case for lots of other workplaces where social distancing advice is completely impractical. If the government loses this fight then its wider back to work agenda is going to flounder. 

Teachers would be quite right to refuse to work in schools under the useless 'just try and keep the weans two metres apart at all times' protocol. The way out of this scenario though is not to keep schools closed indefinitely but rather to replace social distancing with compulsory face mask use as the primary means of preventing contagion. The complete impracticality of the current advice within schools also applies to commercial airlines, colleges/universities, bars, restaurants and last but not least professional sport as well. Get social distancing in the sea and adopt masks as part of a fully functional 'new normal' instead.

While I agree with that, I assume it comes with the caveat that this new normal can only be achieved when we actually have the capacity to properly test trace and isolate. As every part of the UK is clearly months away from being ready for that due to governmental failures to prepare for it, the reopening of schools and other workplaces where maintaining distancing is an impossibility is therefore also months away.

[bendan]

8 minutes ago, virginton said:

Schools are an important test case for lots of other workplaces where social distancing advice is completely impractical. If the government loses this fight then its wider back to work agenda is going to flounder. 

Teachers would be quite right to refuse to work in schools under the useless 'just try and keep the weans two metres apart at all times' protocol. The way out of this scenario though is not to keep schools closed indefinitely but rather to replace social distancing with compulsory face mask use as the primary means of preventing contagion. The complete impracticality of the current advice within schools also applies to commercial airlines, colleges/universities, bars, restaurants and last but not least professional sport as well. Get social distancing in the sea and adopt masks as part of a fully functional 'new normal' instead.

The government is going to regret the two-metre rule. It's the kind of faux science people love here.

[Cyclizine]

7 hours ago, flood said:

Care workers are carrying coved into care homes. Going from person to person. Spending 15 minutes providing care.... isolated residents have not passed to care worker. 

 

To do nothing is wrong

 

the WHO said months ago.... Test test test. We have not followed that 

 

 

 

Can you quote me the WHO guidance where they have said test every asymptomatic care worker. They have not said this.

The WHO guidelines present different testing strategies depending on which phase of the pandemic we are in. When there sporadic outbreaks, then the testing, tracing, isolating plan is feasible. When there is continuous transmission, as at the moment, it is not.

How would you propose to perform blanket testing of all care staff? It would need to be done daily, bearing in mind the lag time for results and the risk of false negatives. We don't have an instant test that confirms if you have or don't have the virus with 100% accuracy either way.

I am not saying there is not an issue in care homes around appropriate PPE, but a "test" is not the solution and might actually lead to false reassurance.

[vikingTON]

24 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said:

While I agree with that, I assume it comes with the caveat that this new normal can only be achieved when we actually have the capacity to properly test trace and isolate. As every part of the UK is clearly months away from being ready for that due to governmental failures to prepare for it, the reopening of schools and other workplaces where maintaining distancing is an impossibility is therefore also months away.

It does, but with the additional caveat that if the governments haven't got their act together on contact tracing in the near future then they deserve emptied for utter incompetence. 

[bendan]

8 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

Can you quote me the WHO guidance where they have said test every asymptomatic care worker. They have not said this.

The WHO guidelines present different testing strategies depending on which phase of the pandemic we are in. When there sporadic outbreaks, then the testing, tracing, isolating plan is feasible. When there is continuous transmission, as at the moment, it is not.

 

Aren't there parts of Scotland where TTI is feasible at the moment? We hear (anecdotally of course) that some non-Covid parts of the NHS are not busy, so could some resources not be put into tracing, and using our new-found testing capacity, said to be under-utilised (again, anecdotally) to test contacts in those areas?

[Billy Jean King]

Do we have a TTI trial in Scotland yet. I've seen job adverts relating to it but it seems to be taking an age to get off the ground. Where is our "Isle of Wight" test ground ? On that very little feedback on the IoW test, wonder how long it takes to get an indication of effectiveness ?

Aren't there parts of Scotland where TTI is feasible at the moment? We hear (anecdotally of course) that some non-Covid parts of the NHS are not busy, so could some resources not be put into tracing, and using our new-found testing capacity, said to be under-utilised (again, anecdotally) to test contacts in those areas?

[Cyclizine]

52 minutes ago, bendan said:

Aren't there parts of Scotland where TTI is feasible at the moment? We hear (anecdotally of course) that some non-Covid parts of the NHS are not busy, so could some resources not be put into tracing, and using our new-found testing capacity, said to be under-utilised (again, anecdotally) to test contacts in those areas?

We could and I believe recruitment and training is going in at the moment. I'm more at the sharp-end in critical care, so just going by what our briefings tell us. The modeling for our Health Board has been remarkably accurate, so I've no reason to disbelieve them. Community transmission is still generally at the continuous stage as far as we're being told. I suspect the epidemiologists are on it behind the scenes.

There is an argument that we should have maybe done this targeted testing earlier, but I don't know how feasible or practical this was at the time.

It would be nice if we had an instant yes/no test, to screen everyone as they came into work, but the practicalities of how the test works in the real world means it's a non-starter.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Cyclizine

[bendan]

Interesting data for England here:

https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/tackling-covid-19/nowcasting-and-forecasting-of-covid-19/

 

[Dee Man]

The worst thing about this entire thread has been @Billy Jean King's quoted posts always appearing below his post. 

[bendan]

7 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

 Community transmission is still generally at the continuous stage as far as we're being told. I suspect the epidemiologists are on it behind the scenes.

 

It would be nice if we had an instant yes/no test, to screen everyone as they came into work, but the practicalities of how the test works in the real world means it's impractical.

One of the things I find annoying is that we're not being given any information about how transmission is occurring. Most of us, at least around me, are simply staying at home and going shopping once or twice a week (and for me, that's only been click and collect). So is transmission mostly among key workers and their families, or is a significant percentage taking place in the locked-down non-key masses? And if it's the latter, where and how is that happening? You'd hope the government is getting info about this, but you'd also hope they'd share it.

[Bairnardo]

The teaching unions are not reading the public mood over this. Just like every other union before them since the 90s.
This could be the end for them if they get this wrong.
As I said before, I don't believe any professional teacher worth their salt will abandon their pupils when they are required to step up over the next few weeks. They'll do the right thing and put kids before pay packet and union loyalty. Anyone who puts politics before the pupils really should be looking for alternative employment.
It's going to be an interesting few weeks.

A dildo in Thatchers dead arse