Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Todd_is_God]

7 minutes ago, renton said:

Lockdowns drive down transmission. The number of deaths attributable will then be proportional to the degree of transmission to vulnerable groups.

We haven't seen more deaths because the case loads have been largely constrained to younger age groups. However, without some form of lockdown there is an increased chance that vulnerable groups become exposed and then you start with the whole dying thing again.

So, your options are at this point

1) to continue with localised lockdowns to stop clusters early in the community, try your best to enforce best, careful practice and live with it until a vaccine is available or the poor wee thing is driven down to such a low level it would struggle to infect more vectors.

2) lock up the oldies, the rest of us go crazy with the ol' Covid parties and take the hit on the very small chances of mortality in younger age groups (assuming no mutation) and then release the old folk six months from now when herd immunity has taken hold.

We don't need to lock anyone up. By all means keep things like distancing in place for now, but leave "the oldies" to make their own choices.

If they want to stay home, let them. If they want to head out, with the understanding of the increase in risk to them, let them.

No one is suggesting scrapping everything and just going back to normal, but the fear porn over a few cases, when nobody is really getting ill, and certainly isn't dying, is absolutely insane.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, coprolite said:

"in light of" doesn't mean "as a direct and inevitable consequence of". 

When the only protocol breach mentioned is Bolingoli, it can be taken that the main reason for Aberdeen's games being off was local restrictions.

[itzdrk]

I'm not on board with the school's being open before less flexible things like offices get to come back and can't understand it. 

[H Wragg]

I was in Glasgow for a meal last night and was surprised by just how many restaurants and bars were closed: from the bottom of Hope Street going up to Sauchiehall it seemed that about 50% of them weren't open. When these businesses can't operate when the government is literally flinging money to get punters through the door right now then they won't be coming back at all: by the time that the furlough scheme ends there's going to be an absolute shitstorm of closures and job losses. Which makes the current demand to get the 'full time mummy: full time professional too' brigade back to the office very badly timed indeed. 

Lack of office staff and tourists meant the city centre restaurants were bound to be fucked, regardless of money being flung at them.

[Gaz]

1 minute ago, itzdrk said:

I'm not on board with the school's being open before less flexible things like offices get to come back and can't understand it. 

You think offices are less flexible than schools?

[renton]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

We don't need to lock anyone up. By all means keep things like distancing in place for now, but leave "the oldies" to make their own choices.

If they want to stay home, let them. If they want to head out, with the understanding of the increase in risk to them, let them.

Yeah, but this is kinda like an anti vaxxer argument. Immunisation, or in this case not passing on the bloody thing is an act of community, it's not about the rights of the individual, because with the best will in the world, accepting greater risks and the like, there is always the non zero chance of unintentionally passing it on.

When it comes to disease, you can't just assume a greater risk for the individual, you do, by default start to accept a greater risk on everyone's behalf.

[itzdrk]

Just now, Gaz said:

You think offices are less flexible than schools?

The ones which are closed are, yes.

To be clear when I say like offices I am not talking about where folk are working from home going back into the office, talking about places unable to operate just now.  I worded it poorly originally. 

 

[mizfit]

Aberdeen City Council are refusing to support the local lockdown beyond this Saturday.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

33 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

Listening to NS just now, I get the impression that this won't be over until there are zero cases.  It seems likely that just a single case in anything resembling normality will rather quickly see a return to the current figures. 

Without a vaccine, which could realistically be years away, I honestly can't see a way out of considerable restrictions this year.  Fitba's fooked.

Yeah with no vaccine I don’t really understand what the end game is here. Restrictions forever more, whole sectors of the economy fucked for years (possibly for good) and localised lockdowns if there’s a couple of cases in a certain area? Sounds a bit shite tbh, some old c***s are going to need to be sacrificed I’m afraid.

[Hedgecutter]

Just now, mizfit said:

Aberdeen City Council are refusing to support the local lockdown beyond this Saturday.

 If the lockdown rules are seen as 'guidelines' then game's a bogey if folk are hearing this from their local government. 

[John MacLean]

This thread is a perfect example of some becoming so entrenched by the position they've taken that they lose the ability, if they ever had it, to view things rationally. Their desire to be right  becomes all important and with that goes any chance of reasoned, nuanced, thought from them. 

 

[renton]

9 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Yeah with no vaccine I don’t really understand what the end game is here. Restrictions forever more, whole sectors of the economy fucked for years (possibly for good) and localised lockdowns if there’s a couple of cases in a certain area? Sounds a bit shite tbh, some old c***s are going to need to be sacrificed I’m afraid.

In fairness Grampian wasnt a couple of cases, it's round about 400 to date. That is not inevitable, otherwise we'd have seen infection rates take off everywhere a week after the pubs opened. It was pretty much a textbook super spreader event.

Other places have so far controlled the infection rates reasonably well to date. The issue, economically speaking is that hospitality is fucked until you can drive demand back up, and folk are being quite conservative with risk so far.

[welshbairn]

22 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

No one is suggesting scrapping everything and just going back to normal

I thought you were? With schools back, pubs and restaurants open and most sectors back at work, we haven't got that far to go.

[Hedgecutter]

Just now, renton said:

In fairness Grampian wasnt a couple of cases, it's round about 400 to date.

All from one guy travelling through Aberdeen for a night and sitting in a pub a fortnight ago. 

[Billy Jean King]

Yeah, but this is kinda like an anti vaxxer argument. Immunisation, or in this case not passing on the bloody thing is an act of community, it's not about the rights of the individual, because with the best will in the world, accepting greater risks and the like, there is always the non zero chance of unintentionally passing it on.
When it comes to disease, you can't just assume a greater risk for the individual, you do, by default start to accept a greater risk on everyone's behalf.

And as has been pointed out before one of any governments primary functions is public health. A policy of every man for themselves simply cannot be adopted as a public health policy. They would be pursued by every claims company / lawyer in the land. As you say it's antivax / flat earth type stuff.

[NorthernLights]

 

[D.A.F.C]

Just saw this too.
So fans at games at that level in England. Meanwhile our teams aren't even training.....

No idea why they can't train outside?

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I thought you were? With schools back, pubs and restaurants open and most sectors back at work, we haven't got that far to go.

There are many sectors still closed, and many things we still can't do. We're not even attempting to try to make temporary changes in the way the still closed sectors operate to enable us to be able to do these things.

We've got miles to go.

[Todd_is_God]

19 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

 If the lockdown rules are seen as 'guidelines' then game's a bogey if folk are hearing this from their local government. 

Good

[coprolite]

33 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

When the only protocol breach mentioned is Bolingoli, it can be taken that the main reason for Aberdeen's games being off was local restrictions.

Only if you take the statement at face value, which only a simpleton would do.