Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[craigkillie]

13 hours ago, superbigal said:

Too many examples now of more than 1 teacher in schools testing positive.
What gives ?
Still all standing making each other tea and sharing donuts in the staff room?

Probably the hundreds of kids running around between their classes.

[Gaz]

Just now, Billy Jean King said:

19 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

That will be to take the heat of his upcoming scudding at PMQ's

Speculation on the news there that the approach today will be he is attempting to "Save Christmas " by announcing new restrictions now. This from the utter buffoon that seems to have forgotten he stood on the same platform a few weeks ago telling us it would be all back to normal before Christmas. It's total and utter carnage, total ineptitude.

Totally unrelated to Covid, but the "save Christmas" chat reminds me of a woman I used to work with who claimed that the cracks on the Forth Road Bridge were Photoshopped a few years back so that the SNP could 'fix' them and claim credit for saving Christmas.

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

23 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

That will be to take the heat of his upcoming scudding at PMQ's

Speculation on the news there that the approach today will be he is attempting to "Save Christmas " by announcing new restrictions now. This from the utter buffoon that seems to have forgotten he stood on the same platform a few weeks ago telling us it would be all back to normal before Christmas. It's total and utter carnage, total ineptitude.

I don't like Christmas. I was looking forward to it being ruined.

[Billy Jean King]

I don't like Christmas. I was looking forward to it being ruined.

You can just sense it will be hyped beyond belief this year.

[Adam]

Probably the hundreds of kids running around between their classes.

Originally the plan in place in my son’s secondary school was to have the children remain in one classroom and for the teachers to move between classes. Obviously not practical for, well, practical classes such as the Sciences and Tech Design (whatever it is being referred to these days), but logistically speaking, I don’t understand why this isn’t the case for subjects such as Maths, English, History etc...

I wonder what the levels of infection would look like had this not been binned?

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 minutes ago, Adam said:

 

Originally the plan in place in my son’s secondary school was to have the children remain in one classroom and for the teachers to move between classes. Obviously not practical for, well, practical classes such as the Sciences and Tech Design (whatever it is being referred to these days), but logistically speaking, I don’t understand why this isn’t the case for subjects such as Maths, English, History etc...

I wonder what the levels of infection would look like had this not been binned?

 

Why not abandon cake decorating or whatever passes as practical and drum some proper lessons in?

[Gaz]

4 minutes ago, Adam said:

Originally the plan in place in my son’s secondary school was to have the children remain in one classroom and for the teachers to move between classes. Obviously not practical for, well, practical classes such as the Sciences and Tech Design (whatever it is being referred to these days), but logistically speaking, I don’t understand why this isn’t the case for subjects such as Maths, English, History etc...

I wonder what the levels of infection would look like had this not been binned?

 

Classes aren't homogenous throughout the day. After break I have a maths class coming, with 31 pupils in it. It won't then be the same 31 pupils going to their next class. Some will be going to, say, History, some French, some PE. Even the ones that are going to the same subject probably won't be going to the same class in all cases.

[Hard Graft]

1 hour ago, mizfit said:

 

 

An FCO ban on oversea travel unless it’s for an essential reason is almost definitely on the cards.
 

Would think this is likely. 

The returning quarantine restrictions are an absolute joke. You know you are taking a risk if you go abroad but to implement quarantine within 48 hrs does not give people a chance to get back. Given that some of our infection figures are higher than on the continent why are they allowing people to fly and why are these countries allowing people in.  Very limited checks are being done on those supposed to quarantine. Time to say if you are returning from a country that requires you to quarantine then you will be taken to a hotel until tested clear and have to meet the costs  yourself. Might be harsh but would stop the crap that is going on at the moment.

Police also need to impose fines as the first resort and not the last. As soon as word goes round that you will be fined then some of these gatherings etc will stop. At the moment you are given a warning and no one is giving a toss about it.

[Adam]

Classes aren't homogenous throughout the day. After break I have a maths class coming, with 31 pupils in it. It won't then be the same 31 pupils going to their next class. Some will be going to, say, History, some French, some PE. Even the ones that are going to the same subject probably won't be going to the same class in all cases.

I understand that, it was never going to be a one size fits all situation. However, this was a serious consideration, one that was fed out to parents, therefore at least some form of tentative plan must have been drafted to have this implemented. Whether these were only intended for S1 and S2, where pupils are not split into different classes based on their abilities, or potentially impacting those with different abilities to their peers higher up the school, I don’t know.

I just wonder if it was deemed too much of a pain in the arse to implement, and would have too great an impact on the pupils, and that was weighed up against higher levels of infection as a result of having 800+ children walking between classes every 50 minutes.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

9 minutes ago, Hard Graft said:

Would think this is likely. 

The returning quarantine restrictions are an absolute joke. You know you are taking a risk if you go abroad but to implement quarantine within 48 hrs does not give people a chance to get back. Given that some of our infection figures are higher than on the continent why are they allowing people to fly and why are these countries allowing people in.  Very limited checks are being done on those supposed to quarantine. Time to say if you are returning from a country that requires you to quarantine then you will be taken to a hotel until tested clear and have to meet the costs  yourself. Might be harsh but would stop the crap that is going on at the moment.

Police also need to impose fines as the first resort and not the last. As soon as word goes round that you will be fined then some of these gatherings etc will stop. At the moment you are given a warning and no one is giving a toss about it.

do you read the daily express?

[Marshmallo]

26 minutes ago, Adam said:

 

Originally the plan in place in my son’s secondary school was to have the children remain in one classroom and for the teachers to move between classes. Obviously not practical for, well, practical classes such as the Sciences and Tech Design (whatever it is being referred to these days), but logistically speaking, I don’t understand why this isn’t the case for subjects such as Maths, English, History etc...

I wonder what the levels of infection would look like had this not been binned?

 

Completely unchanged. The "AV GOAT TWO WEANS" experts have told us there is zero transmission in schools, and who am I to doubt them?

[Todd_is_God]

24 minutes ago, Snafu said:

You need 70% estimated for herd immunity to be effective.

The problem with this entire post, is there is nothing to suggest that is true.

It's a number which relies mainly on no one having pre-existing immunity, which is no longer believed to the be the case.

There are papers which claim it could be as low as 20%

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-second-wave-oxford-study-boris-johnson-a9623791.html%3famp?espv=1

There are others suggesting 43%

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200623111329.htm

In other words, they don't really know any more than you or I do.

The only thing you can say for certain, is that, by limiting the number of times they eat or drink out, by maintaing social distancing when out and by working from home where possible, the Swedes have seen a decline in cases and deaths for months, without having to shut down entire sectors, and, as an aside, without wearing masks.

They must be doing something right - "But they are different to us" simply isn't a good enough reason to not look at what that may be, and how to emulate it. It may not be a one size fits all approach, but there is no real reason it couldn't work in Scotland.

It looks like WM (and the SG) have tried to do that over the last few days with the measures they are putting in place.

The Swedish model didn't fail. People were eager to point out that it did when cases were nice and low actoss Europe, but now it's those same people who are having restrictions re-imposed or tightened, not the Swedes. When it's all over you can say who failed - not at half time in the first leg.

Sweden accepted people will die, and took steps to limit the number. We've never accepted this, and tried to take steps to prevent anyone dying.

It should be obvious this cannot work. Yet here we are, 6 months later, still believing it can, and wanting to essentially do the same thing that was so successful before.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Todd_is_God]

What is the point in this?

 

[Michael W]

23 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

What is the point in this?

 

Why do you need to cover your mouth if you cough/sneeze when already wearing a face covering? 

I thought "the guidance" was that you should avoid touching the face covering where possible. 

[Lurkst]

1 hour ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, dirty dingus said:

That will be to take the heat of his upcoming scudding at PMQ's

Speculation on the news there that the approach today will be he is attempting to "Save Christmas " 

Dishy Rishi to fund 66 million of these...

[NotThePars]

Totally unrelated to Covid, but the "save Christmas" chat reminds me of a woman I used to work with who claimed that the cracks on the Forth Road Bridge were Photoshopped a few years back so that the SNP could 'fix' them and claim credit for saving Christmas.

For such a bland centrist party people love ascribing absolutely insane shit to the SNP

[Todd_is_God]

7 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Simply killing off a huge number of vulnerable people many of whom were in nursing homes in the first couple of months just to look good five months later is not protecting and preventing the population from the virus and as we are now aware even healthy people can die or end up with life changing disabilities from catching it. Its playing Russian roulette with peoples lives. I still look at that Swedish COVID-19 death figure and go f**king hell that is horrendous and what a clusterf**k of an idea, what were they thinking when both Norway and Denmark were more successful in containing infections and deaths.

There is absolutely no chance the Swedish model would even be considered in the UK, for starters our NHS would be overwhelmed and given the recent behaviour of some and the bad luck of others would we trust the people of this country to a voluntary lockdown?

It would be pointless if the target was herd immunity when as Sweden has proved it hasn't been reached in fact it isn't even half of the estimated target. All that would happen is that lots of people will die many who were never ill before catching it and an overwhelmed NHS would lead to even more deaths.

I take it Sweden has a world leading health service to cope, how did that go when the virus peaked there?

 

You are refusing to budge from your 70% HIT

Not because it has been proven that it is 70% (it hasn't), but because the ramifications of it being much lower devastate the rest of your argument that lockdowns are an absolute must.

At the end of the year, let's revisit total annual and excess deaths for the Nordic countries and compare them.

[Szamo's_Ammo]

8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

At the end of the year, let's revisit total annual and excess deaths for the Nordic countries and compare them.

You could have a section discussing it, with graphs to accompany, just before the bells on Hootenanny.

Got to be better than Vic Reeves.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Snafu said:

It was given as an estimate 70% to 90% in a few articles, one would assume that they have a lot more understanding than us on the subject since they work on the subject as a profession

And yet they can't agree, but you are adamant those with the high estimates are right, and those with the low estimates are wrong.

What is the end goal? Is it to get it over quickly, accepting that some people will die from it, or is it to do absolutely anything and everything to prevent people dying from it, no matter how long that takes, the cost, impact on the economy, and how many people die of other causes as a direct result of the actions we take?

I've heard both NS & JL over the last week say "we can't keep things locked down forever, we need to find a way to get them back open."

To do that, the only option is the former.

A vaccine, should it arrive, will be a bonus. It cannot be plan A.

PS - Linking me to the same report I sent you is not the best way to stimulate a conversation. All it does is highlight you didn't read what i'd sent you before dismissing it.

[Thereisalight..]

4 hours ago, Snafu said:

I wonder what these powers mean for protests and marches?

How will this affect opening the doors on sports events?

Protests and marches - allowed

Big bad sports fans - not allowed 

1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:

What is the point in this?

 

Pathetic. Yet Brighton could have 2500 fans at their game and none were wearing masks. I’m sure I even saw a pic of fans laughing and looking happy