Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[craigkillie]

5 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

He's a microbiologist, not a virologist or epidemiologist. 

We've got more relevant folk than that to listen to (not the dentist bloke).

 

The job of people in these sorts of positions is to gather together evidence from all of the relevant sources and summarise it - you don't have to necessarily be an expert in any individual field yourself as long as you have adequate knowledge of what is good and bad science in various fields. I have no idea whether the latter applies to any of the people involved, right enough.

[Forest_Fifer]

Hospital deaths in England also looking promising.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, Forest_Fifer said:

Hospital deaths in England also looking promising.

I hinted at this yesterday, but i'm now fairly certain that the Goverment choosing to pick now to include care home deaths in its daily figures is to beat back any opposition to a final 3 week lockdown extension being announced next week.

Which is mad to think is necessary, as I think most sane people would expect any relaxation to take a few weeks longer here than in most of Europe given we have always been 2/3 weeks behind them throughout the full pandemic.

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

The criteria can be whatever you like if you don’t actually have the tests to carry them out.  Currently there is absolutely no chance that all meeting the criteria or even a reasonable percentage can be tested. 

Yep, I've got no idea why anyone thinks that rolling out criteria for a purely symbolic purpose is a benchmark for progress. I've hardly been cheerleading for the SG's performance so far but once again seem to be doing things on a slightly more rational basis than England/Wales' rolling 'make a big media splash and then have a humiliating climbdown when it isn't ready' strategy.

The broad brush criteria for these tests seems utterly ridiculous until they are able to execute a million of them per day. Half of them are going to be wasted on fucking hypochondriacs right now.

[Wee Willie]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

It needs to be a key element of the next election campaign.

The Labour Party (and others) don't want to be seen to be too critical whilst we're still going through this but they better be stockpiling this stuff for later.

There were clearly issues that were ignored in terms of preparation, and when you add that to the austerity cutbacks it's surely going to be a major election issue.

The care homes situation fits into the long term issues one as well, but the last Labour government hardly covered themselves in glory either so less likely to be an election issue. The lack of a fully funded public service of care is a disgrace. Privatisation always fucks over those at the bottom, and when something like this happens the problem is magnified.

Are you a spokesperson/apologist for the Labour Party?

Have ye never heard of the SNP?

We could be out of this shithole at the next GE never mind stockpiling this stuff for later.

As there is only one Labour MP from Scotland and they are the third party in Holyrood what are they going to do later?

[vikingTON]

15 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

He's a microbiologist, not a virologist or epidemiologist. 

We've got more relevant folk than that to listen to (not the dentist bloke).

 

Your standard microbiologist has actually got far more insight on the nuts and bolts of vaccine creation than an epidemiologist, given that we also produce tons of vaccines for bacterial diseases. Epidemiologists are just the clowns who produce a model and then another one when the first one doesn't predict things correctly.

Edited April 29, 2020 by vikingTON

[Wee Willie]

On 28/04/2020 at 14:02, 101 said:

I would say unions are socialist at branch level however the folk in charge of the unions are getting unbelievable coin.

As for are unions, I have no idea if unions are for or against trident. 

Trident should be first thing on the scrap heap once the virus is over and the gov are looking and penny pinching, it's clear nuclear warfare would actually be easier to deal with than a pandemic flu

I'm really referring to the Scottish (branch) unions.

They have their conferences but I'm unaware of any of them condemning Trident or the fact that Scotland is expected to pay her share of expensive English projects.

Also you and I have the same objective in getting rid of Trident.

Yours appears to be on cost while mine is more personal in that I want my grandkids to grow up in a Trident-free Scotland.

Which, of course, is next door to our biggest city.

[MuckleMoo]

Excellent bit of reporting in The Gurdian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/revealed-the-inside-story-of-uk-covid-19-coronavirus-crisis

[vikingTON]

16 minutes ago, virginton said:

The broad brush criteria for these tests seems utterly ridiculous until they are able to execute a million of them per day. Half of them are going to be wasted on fucking hypochondriacs right now.

NB: I've now looked up the criteria for 'priority' testing in England: it's absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Spoiler

 

List of essential workers and those prioritised for testing (England only)

• all NHS and social care staff, including:
  • doctors, nurses, midwives, paramedics, social workers, care workers, and other frontline health and social care staff including volunteers
  • the support and specialist staff required to maintain the UK’s health and social care sector
  • those working as part of the health and social care supply chain, including producers and distributors of medicines, and medical and personal protective equipment
  • NHS Blood and Transplant frontline staff (blood donation staff, specialist nurses for organ donation, staff running therapeutic apheresis services in NHS hospitals)
  • those providing ancillary support to NHS workers (such as hotel accommodation for NHS staff)
• essential public services staff, including:
  • prisons, probation, courts and tribunals staff, judiciary
  • religious staff
  • charities and workers delivering critical frontline services
  • those responsible for the management of the deceased
  • journalists and broadcasters covering coronavirus or providing public service broadcasting
  • public health and environmental staff, such as specialist community public health nursing
• public safety and national security staff, including:
  • police and support staff
  • Ministry of Defence civilians, contractors and armed forces personnel (those critical to the delivery of critical defence and national security outputs and critical to the response to the coronavirus pandemic), including defence medical staff
  • fire and rescue service employees (including support staff),
  • National Crime Agency staff, those maintaining border security, prison and probation staff and other national security roles, including those overseas
  • British Transport Police and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency
• transport workers, including:
  • those who keep the air, water, road and rail passenger and freight transport modes operating during the coronavirus response
  • those working on transport systems through which supply chains pass
• education and childcare workers, including:
  • support and teaching staff
  • social workers
  • specialist education professionals
• critical personnel in the production and distribution of food, drink and essential goods, including:
  • those involved in food production, processing, distribution, sale and delivery
  • those critical to the provision of other essential goods, such as medical supply chain and distribution workers, including community pharmacy and testing (such as PHE labs), and veterinary medicine
  • workers critical to the continuity of essential movement of goods
• local and national government staff critical to the effective delivery of the coronavirus response, or delivering essential public services, such as the payment of benefits
• public and environmental health staff, including in government agencies and arm’s length bodies
• funeral industry workers
• frontline local authority staff and volunteers, including
  • those working with vulnerable children and adults, victims of domestic abuse, and the homeless and rough sleepers (and hotel staff supporting these groups)
  • voluntary sector organisations providing substance misuse treatment
• utilities, communication and financial services staff, including:
  • staff needed for essential financial services provision (including but not limited to workers in banks, building societies and financial market infrastructure)
  • the oil, gas, electricity and water sectors (including sewerage)
  • information technology and data infrastructure sector and primary industry supplies to continue during the coronavirus response
  • essential staff working in the civil nuclear, chemicals, telecommunications (including but not limited to network operations, field engineering, call centre staff, IT and data infrastructure, 999 and 111 essential services), postal services and delivery, payments providers and waste disposal sectors

 

• •  

I suspect that well over half of the people on this forum could make a bullshit claim to a test under one or more of the above categories. Its also unclear whether there's a limit to the number of tests that you can request: is it really the best use of resources to let some hypochondriac local journalist request a new test every 48 hours?

Unless we get to a situation in which we can hand tests out like Skittles anyway then we shouldn't be following this daft, media-oriented token gesture.

Edited April 29, 2020 by vikingTON

[Melanius Mullarkey]

16 minutes ago, virginton said:

Your standard microbiologist has actually got far more insight on the nuts and bolts of vaccine creation than an epidemiologist, given that we also produce tons of vaccines for bacterial diseases. Epidemiologists are just the clowns who produce a model and then another one when the first one doesn't predict things correctly.

He was talking about virology (vacine) and epidemiology (seconds spike) as a microbiologist.

Pretty sure Scotland has more relevant (in terms of qualifications and experience) people to give an opinion on this.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Melanius Mullarkey

[vikingTON]

Just now, Melanius Mullarkey said:

He was talking about virology (vacine) and epidemiology (seconds spike) as a microbiologist.

Erm no, he was talking specifically about the likelihood of producing a vaccine: a concept that is shared by virologists and microbiologists but not epidemiologists, who have no direct knowledge of vaccine production or efficacy. Swing and a miss.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Just now, virginton said:

Erm no, he was talking specifically about the likelihood of producing a vaccine: a concept that is shared by virologists and microbiologists but not epidemiologists, who have no direct knowledge of vaccine production or efficacy. Swing and a miss.

I see you conveniently swerved his second spike chat, champ.

[pandarilla]

Are you a spokesperson/apologist for the Labour Party?
Have ye never heard of the SNP?
We could be out of this shithole at the next GE never mind stockpiling this stuff for later.
As there is only one Labour MP from Scotland and they are the third party in Holyrood what are they going to do later?

I've been voting for the snp and the greens since 2003, and I've signed up for the common weal volunteer thing they're launching. Calm yourself doon.

The issue of Scottish independence remains in the balance as sturgeon (rightly) won't gamble on a second referendum until she's pretty confident of winning. In that respect the issue is on the backburner until the polls in favour shift, and i fear there are plenty of died in the wool unionists so it'll take time.

Consequently, we have a Westminster tory government that i would like to see the back of. The new Labour leader is yet to fully commit to anything to avoid looking like he's taking advantage of a national crisis. But they have to go hard on this issue at some point - and surely to f**k the English public will listen (once the dust settles on the 'let's pull together British spirit').

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

Erm no, he was talking specifically about the likelihood of producing a vaccine: a concept that is shared by virologists and microbiologists but not epidemiologists, who have no direct knowledge of vaccine production or efficacy. Swing and a miss.

He's 82, retired in 2003. He's unlikely to be up to date on the latest RNA methodology.

[pandarilla]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/29/airlines-oil-giants-government-economy?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_WhatsApp

The guardian also has an excellent monbiot article about not bailing out the airlines and oil companies.

[Granny Danger]

29 minutes ago, MuckleMoo said:

Excellent bit of reporting in The Gurdian

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/revealed-the-inside-story-of-uk-covid-19-coronavirus-crisis

The Guardian have provided very good coverage throughout this.  Of course more folk will be influenced by the Daily Heil, DailyExpress and Boris Bullshitting Cùnts.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

56 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said:

He's a microbiologist, not a virologist or epidemiologist. 

We've got more relevant folk than that to listen to (not the dentist bloke).

 

f**k him, get Dr Concrete on.

[vikingTON]

18 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

He's 82, retired in 2003. He's unlikely to be up to date on the latest RNA methodology.

You really don't need to be to state that he wouldn't put money on a vaccine being produced, given i) all the other factors in vaccine production that that he has knowledge and experience of and ii) the broad parameter of that statement. If he said that there was a 79% chance of failure for specific reasons instead then it would be a different story.

 

 

[Wee Willie]

8 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

I've been voting for the snp and the greens since 2003, and I've signed up for the common weal volunteer thing they're launching. Calm yourself doon.

The issue of Scottish independence remains in the balance as sturgeon (rightly) won't gamble on a second referendum until she's pretty confident of winning. In that respect the issue is on the backburner until the polls in favour shift, and i fear there are plenty of died in the wool unionists so it'll take time.

Consequently, we have a Westminster tory government that i would like to see the back of. The new Labour leader is yet to fully commit to anything to avoid looking like he's taking advantage of a national crisis. But they have to go hard on this issue at some point - and surely to f**k the English public will listen (once the dust settles on the 'let's pull together British spirit').
 

I apologise © Billy Eckstine and I will calm doon.

It's just your references to Labour which got me foaming at the mouth.

You surely agree with me that as far as Scotland is concerned Tories & Labour are twa cheeks o' the same arse.

Both unionist, both support Trident in Scottish waters, both expect Scotland to pay her share of English projects.

They've even got a royalist as heid man of a so-called socialist party.

If, by a miracle, Labour (in England) won the next GE, what would they offer Scotland which wasn't just an addendum to what they offer England?

[Distant Doonhamer]

Hugh Pennington says he wouldnt bet on there ever being an effective vaccine, and that he has no reason to believe there will be a massive second spike.

 

Thoughts on that anyone?

He may be right I don’t know. He does like the sound of his own voice though.

Given his long expertise in microbiology though not specifically virology his opinion has some validity but is nonetheless at odds with the view of many virologists.