Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Jacksgranda]

9 minutes ago, MuckleMoo said:

Surely there's no point lifting the restrictions until the test, trace, isolate programme is in place which, as far as I'm aware, it isn't

My thoughts, too.

[Todd_is_God]

4 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

The 17th is not as early as the 15th...

Wolfsburg are playing the day before.

They would have played on the 15th but had to wait a day so they were beyond the mid point of the month.

Let's not be pedantic. The point was he rubbished that the bundesliga would return that weekend.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Jacksgranda]

10 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

I'm not a multimillionaire so this statement, plainly, doesn't apply to normal people.

If you and me are struggling to pay bills because of this, that's a much more important issue than if Viscount Rothermere doesn't get as big a dividend.

Don't do as I do, do as I say.

[Mark Connolly]

Just now, Todd_is_God said:

Let's not be pedantic.

This is P&B.

Just now, Todd_is_God said:

Wolfsburg are playing the day before.

Let's not be pedantic. The point was he rubbished that the bundesliga would return that weekend.

The day before the 17th is also not as early as the 15th. HTH

[Todd_is_God]

44 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

We can't have that kind of approach though because [mention=29985]Billy Jean King[/mention] lives with his son

Whit ???

You said any approach which allowed those under 45 to not be quarantined was impossible because your son lives with you and would need to go to work

Edited May 7, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Thereisalight..]

15 minutes ago, bendan said:

I wonder what percentage of the population don't have a material interest in the economy getting back to normal?

 

8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The Tories have a vested interest in ‘getting the economy back to normal’.  That is a given.

However it is very naive to claim it is only the Tories who are wanting this.

 

I think any sane person wants the economy back and thriving. Obviously not because we want big businesses to prosper and get richer, but for the sake of the normal working “man”. A failed economy resulting in job loses, resulting in mental health problems due to money worries, resulting in little to no dispensable income would be catastrophic for so many people

[ayrmad]

Just get ICU capacity up to a level that allows us to get this over in done after one complete easing of lockdown, those in vulnerable groups can without penalty carry on as is if they wish. 

[D.A.F.C]

I think any sane person wants the economy back and thriving. Obviously not because we want big businesses to prosper and get richer, but for the sake of the normal working “man”. A failed economy resulting in job loses, resulting in mental health problems due to money worries, resulting in little to no dispensable income would be catastrophic for so many people

Most folk are in debt as well with large mortgages etc. The government and previous (including labour) are to blame for that mess as well. House prices should never have been allowed to rise as much.

[superbigal]

Englandshire is undoubtedly in a better place than us at the moment to make changes. There testing strategies are ahead of ours due to the sheer capacity in place. If I need tested I probably still need to make a 50 mile journey and potentially wait days for results.

No way can she make changes while it is still like this.

 

However one of the tories 5 statements we keep hearing is a large sustained decrease in deaths. That is clearly not happening so I have no idea how the bold Boris can proceed to stage 2 anyway.

 

On a separate but controversial note. No one is really getting tore in about the specific cases in care homes where the NHS hospitals had discharged the old dears who were positive without testing them. Hiding behind the scientists advice on this is like sending bulls to the slaughterhouse

If it comes to pass the old dears should have been tested and were not then the NHS takes some of the actual blame.

 

 

 

 

[Jacksgranda]

6 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

What are you actually saying here? What's the argument?

Me: Billionaires could give away almost all their money and they and their great grandchildren could still live in luxury compared to normal people. Their motivation for publishing headlines about restarting the economy is to continue amassing wealth that is disconnected from their welfare.

You: Do you, a normal person, give away most of your money?

Me: No

You: Therefore the press should remained owned by billionaires, hypocrite.

Is that about the size of it?

You want billionaires to give away 95% of their wealth (something that I agree they could probably do), but won't give away any of yours.

I didn't say that and it's a total non sequitur, and wasn't germane to your original post.

 

[Todd_is_God]

10 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

Just get ICU capacity up to a level that allows us to get this over in done after one complete easing of lockdown, those in vulnerable groups can without penalty carry on as is if they wish. 

There were 585 ICU beds available in Scotland on 14th April, with a target of increasing that to 700.

To date the most that have been needed is 221, on the 12th of April.

We don't need a lockdown to prevent the NHS being overrun.

[Silverton End]

My missus got tested on Monday, got her result - negative.

Pleased

[O'Kelly Isley III]

Englandshire is undoubtedly in a better place than us at the moment to make changes. There testing strategies are ahead of ours due to the sheer capacity in place. If I need tested I probably still need to make a 50 mile journey and potentially wait days for results.
No way can she make changes while it is still like this.
 
However one of the tories 5 statements we keep hearing is a large sustained decrease in deaths. That is clearly not happening so I have no idea how the bold Boris can proceed to stage 2 anyway.
 
On a separate but controversial note. No one is really getting tore in about the specific cases in care homes where the NHS hospitals had discharged the old dears who were positive without testing them. Hiding behind the scientists advice on this is like sending bulls to the slaughterhouse
If it comes to pass the old dears should have been tested and were not then the NHS takes some of the actual blame.
 
 
 
 

Your post and the one immediately above make an interesting juxtaposition. Whilst Englandshire may well be in a better position testing and medical resource-wise, there are millions of people down there who were living by the month financially long before this pandemic. Johnson will be coming under real pressure from many quarters to ease the lockdown, and in all honesty probably before he should, and this will be a big factor in any decision. That's not to minimise the levels of poverty or deprivation in Scotland, far from it, but the Tories will worry far, far more about the aspirational classes who vote for them than the residual poor. Sturgeon's announcement today will probably arouse anger around the Cabinet table, correct as it is.

[Distant Doonhamer]

There were 585 ICU beds available in Scotland on 14th April, with a target of increasing that to 700.
To date the most that have been needed is 221, on the 12th of April.
We don't need a lockdown to prevent the NHS being overrun.

The current level of Covid NHS activity allows a return to the appropriate working of the non- Covid aspects of the NHS. It’s every bit as crucial that we don’t allow these equally important aspects of healthcare be lost by a surge in Covid cases.

[Michael W]

I don't think there will be much difference to be honest. At best, Johnson will announce more shops can open and you can leave the house without being fined if your reason isn't good enough. Social distancing is here to stay for the foreseeable and even the "social bubble" that was in the Scot Gov document is probably still at least a couple of weeks away, lest some people take the piss with it. 

Shops and also the rules on leaving the house are very much within the Scot Gov remit as well, so it shouldn't be difficult to diverge from these measures a little. 

RE shops - how many of them will want to open anyway? Social distancing will need to be enforced which will deter customers and a lot of people will continue to stay indoors anyway, either because they are vulnerable or because they are scared. 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Michael W

[Jacksgranda]

16 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Well what do you want me to learn from your observation then? What's the message that changes my thinking on press ownership?

Not that it matters in the slightest but I do give to charity regularly (something I shouldn't need to do but Tories gonna Tory).

What is your thinking on press ownership? Other than present owners baaaad.

I've been giving to charities for years, too, sometimes when there have been Labour governments.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Jacksgranda

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

The current level of Covid NHS activity allows a return to the appropriate working of the non- Covid aspects of the NHS. It’s every bit as crucial that we don’t allow these equally important aspects of healthcare be lost by a surge in Covid cases.

The point i was making was that we were never close to overwhelming the NHS, not up here anyway.

Based on the article in the Spectator, whether you believe it or not, it would make more sense to either designate particular hospitals or temporary hospitals to accomodate Covid-19 patients, effectively quarantining them, whilst allowing the remaining NHS capacity for all other cases. We know people with health conditions are most at risk. Hospitals are full of people with health conditions.

Why not try moving them to self contained locations?

[Bairnardo]

Folk have hopefully (the majority at least) probably become conditioned to the way shops etc are going to have to work. I'd like to hope we could have some more bits and pieces open up without it being inevitable that a second spike occurs.

If the mask thing is a go'er then announce that the Scottish lockdown has two weeks more, use that time to try and force masks/coverings into the mainstream and allow businesses to do the neccessary to get ready with a firm opening date.

[Todd_is_God]

Another comparison between our graph and the Swedes.

There is a very clear incline, peak, and decline in their deaths.

We, on the other hand, have been moving in neither direction for 5 weeks. If the lockdown is working, we should expect an obvious decline in that time frame. We aren't seeing it.

There is no point continuing to do the same thing if it continually produces the same, ineffective results.

[beefybake]

39 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Well what do you want me to learn from your observation then? What's the message that changes my thinking on press ownership?

Not that it matters in the slightest but I do give to charity regularly (something I shouldn't need to do but Tories gonna Tory).

It's good for the soul, nothing to do with the Tory sc*mbags.

What I hate is the feeling that when I give, I'm filling in for what a government

should be doing.