Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Thereisalight..]

Another pub in Ayrshire shut because a staff member tested positive for covid. Also saw ones in Edinburgh shut and the Perth one because someone’s Aunts next door neighbours dog walker had it I’m starting to wonder if test and protects is actually doing more harm than good 

[Billy Jean King]

The only hope I have left is for this review into the hospital numbers to slash the numbers in hospital down to around 50 or less, and for them to keep dropping.
With the JRS ending & people having spent almost 6 months already putting up with restrictions, if it is shown that no one is really that ill at all then the tide will turn, and pressure will start to mount once people realise (if they haven't already) that their jobs are at serious risk for no real reason anymore.

Your public opinion turning line is the exact same as the wait two weeks for infections to rise...it's just never happening. People in this country tend to do what they are told bar the odd daftie. That won't change overnight there is still massive backing for the SG handling of this whether you agree with it or not. You just need to look at any poll published during this whole affair to see that. There will be no mass protest or civil disobedience, we are just not wired that way and governments know that. You might not like it I may not like elements of it but that's the long and the short of it and there will be no "silver bullet" to change that given 400 deaths a day UK wide in care homes haven't.

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, strichener said:

The question is who will be proven to be correct. 

We were told by the SG that we were doing all the right things and they were aiming to eradicate it from Scotland.  Then they go and open up what had to be the highest risk areas - Pubs and eateries.  Not content with doing this, they then reduce the social distance requirements when all sense tells you that indoors, alcohol and lack of common sense would see rates increase again.  With this back-drop it appears hypocritical to not allow mass gathering out-door events but then, unlike most, I have not seen much sense with any governments handling of the pandemic.

I think you are being a little narrow minded with sense shown by European governments.

With the exception of sporting events, most have gotten their countries moving again, and a real sense of normality. Busy restaurants, bars, music, live entertainment, even small outdoor gigs.

There appears to be an acceptance there that, while this will kill people, the numbers are relatively insignificant, and certainly don't warrant shutting things down.

Here, though, and in Scotland in particular, we are stuck in the mindset that everyone who gets it might die (apart from schoolkids - no worries there), and if 1 person dies it's unacceptable, which is an unworkable mindset long term.

The unfortunate reality is that people die every day, and that changing our entire lives to try and prevent a few people out of ~150 dying 'prematurely' on that particular day, whilst simultaneously giving no consideration to the people that will ultimately die 'prematurely' as a consequence of that, is the sort of thing schoolkids will read about in the future and be asking "why they f**k did they do that?" in their essays and exams.

[craigkillie]

25 minutes ago, Tynierose said:

my conjecture is based on the word of our chief executive, which is slightly more credible than Tam from doon the road.

To allow bingo, gyms, schools, pubs etc etc inside but no crowds at football is absolutely fucking nonsense and shows these people are ridiculously out of touch.

Ah but the science, wait is that the science that proves outside transmission is minimal.

Drivel.

The date of September 14th for the return of limited crowds to outdoor sporting events is nothing to do with "Tam doon the road", but literally comes from the Scottish government, the people who are actually in charge of making the rules. So if we are playing a game of credibility top trumps then I think Nicola Sturgeon is probably going to somewhat outrank your chief executive.

None of this is a guarantee that crowds will be back for your season starting, but there has been nothing to suggest the government are about to u-turn on that 14th September date.

Edited September 4, 2020 by craigkillie

[Todd_is_God]

9 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

38 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The only hope I have left is for this review into the hospital numbers to slash the numbers in hospital down to around 50 or less, and for them to keep dropping.
With the JRS ending & people having spent almost 6 months already putting up with restrictions, if it is shown that no one is really that ill at all then the tide will turn, and pressure will start to mount once people realise (if they haven't already) that their jobs are at serious risk for no real reason anymore.

Your public opinion turning line is the exact same as the wait two weeks for infections to rise...it's just never happening. People in this country tend to do what they are told bar the odd daftie. That won't change overnight there is still massive backing for the SG handling of this whether you agree with it or not. You just need to look at any poll published during this whole affair to see that. There will be no mass protest or civil disobedience, we are just not wired that way and governments know that. You might not like it I may not like elements of it but that's the long and the short of it and there will be no "silver bullet" to change that given 400 deaths a day UK wide in care homes haven't.

Really good post. Maybe you are right. If it happens and people still can't see it from under their beds then there's really nothing I or anyone else can do to convince them.

You are right, though, we are gullible shitebags. Collectively we bought into the fear in 2014, and NS has promised to set the date for a 2nd referendum every year since 2016, yet people still believe her whenever she says "next year" as if she is somehow in control.

I couldn't have told you the number of daily deaths in care homes tbh. That's 'surprisingly' high (I say it like that because when I think about it, around 25% of all UK deaths each day being in care homes isn't all that surprising), and unless the mainstream media start reporting on stats like that (like they should have been for months), nothing will change.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[strichener]

11 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I think you are being a little narrow minded with sense shown by European governments.

With the exception of sporting events, most have gotten their countries moving again, and a real sense of normality. Busy restaurants, bars, music, live entertainment, even small outdoor gigs.

There appears to be an acceptance there that, while this will kill people, the numbers are relatively insignificant, and certainly don't warrant shutting things down.

Here, though, and in Scotland in particular, we are stuck in the mindset that everyone who gets it might die (apart from schoolkids - no worries there), and if 1 person dies it's unacceptable, which is an unworkable mindset long term.

The unfortunate reality is that people die every day, and that changing our entire lives to try and prevent a few people out of ~150 dying 'prematurely' on that particular day, whilst simultaneously giving no consideration to the people that will ultimately die 'prematurely' as a consequence of that, is the sort of thing schoolkids will read about in the future and be asking "why they f**k did they do that?" in their essays and exams.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough - I was referring to the governments of the UK in all their varieties.  Many will die of poverty before they even have a sniff of Covid.

[Billy Jean King]

Another pub in Ayrshire shut because a staff member tested positive for covid. Also saw ones in Edinburgh shut and the Perth one because someone’s Aunts next door neighbours dog walker had it [emoji849] I’m starting to wonder if test and protects is actually doing more harm than good 

The Ayrshire pubs are shutting voluntarily, they are not being shut by authorities via track and trace. It Publicans taking a very cautious approach to protect their staff primarily.

[craigkillie]

20 minutes ago, Tynierose said:

You just keep doing the party line.

This doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. I'm not following any party line here but instead simply pointing out that, as it stands, limited crowds are expected to be allowed at sporting events in this country in 10 days time. It's published on the Scottish government website and has been discussed by the First Minister in her briefings. There is still an expectation that there are going to be test events in the Premiership next weekend too, again the government have confirmed that they're expecting applications for this.

None of this is an opinion, a piece of conjecture, hearsay or anything else, it's a factual summary of the current state of play when it comes to football having crowds, based entirely on the most up to date information provided by the people who actually make the decisions.

Edited September 4, 2020 by craigkillie

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, strichener said:

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough - I was referring to the governments of the UK in all their varieties.  Many will die of poverty before they even have a sniff of Covid.

I agree.

I will say though, that for all their mistakes early on, WM have restored a much greater sense of normality than up here, and appear much more willing to press the accelerator on lifting restrictions.

The SG, lauded for not making covid political (lol), have started mentioning how independence is the only way Scotland can recover from covid, which doesn't give me much hope of them moving too far forward (if any) until the end of October, at which point the end of the JRS can be blamed for forcing their hand if it goes wrong.

It's always been political, and, as you will know, has completely dented my trust in the SNP.

Edited September 4, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[PWL]

36 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

A total of 612,990 people in Scotland have been tested and of those people 21,048 were positive and 591,942 were confirmed negative

Found this stat on local news site.

Seems like lots of people tested for no reason?

Mrs is a mental health nurse and gets a routine Covid test weekly and has done for some months.  Not sure but would expect the likes of her and colleagues will show up as multiple 'people' - As opposed to the more than 1 in 10 of population being tested that it suggests. 

[Billy Jean King]

This doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. I'm not following any party line here but instead simply pointing out that, as it stands, limited crowds are expected to be allowed at sporting events in this country in 10 days time. It's published on the Scottish government website and has been discussed by the First Minister in here briefings. There is still an expectation that there are going to be test events in the Premiership next weekend too, again the government have confirmed that they're expecting applications for this.

None of this is an opinion, a piece of conjecture, hearsay or anything else, it's a factual summary of the current state of play when it comes to football having crowds, based entirely on the most up to date information provided by the people who actually make the decisions.

The fact lower league clubs have started signing players suggests they may have had an indication that things will start as agreed. A lot of negativity around a return to stadiums with very little obvious reason. I seem to remember the same about pubs and gyms and they opened on or ahead of their well publicised indicative dates.

 

[Rugster]

46 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

A total of 612,990 people in Scotland have been tested and of those people 21,048 were positive and 591,942 were confirmed negative

Found this stat on local news site.

Seems like lots of people tested for no reason?

Aye hundreds of thousands of people just rocked up for a test for the fun of it. 

[welshbairn]

Just now, PWL said:

Mrs is a mental health nurse and gets a routine Covid test weekly and has done for some months.  Not sure but would expect the likes of her and colleagues will show up as multiple 'people' - As opposed to the more than 1 in 10 of population being tested that it suggests. 

I've got a sister coming over from New Zealand who wants to quarantine and get tested even though it's not mandatory. She'll be doing caring duties so she should qualify for a test, but from what I can find online they only test you if you have symptoms, and that it's only worth doing between the 3rd and 5th day. So I don't understand the logic of regular testing, though my sister really wants one or two so if anyone has any advice how to sort it I'd be grateful.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, welshbairn said:

I've got a sister coming over from New Zealand who wants to quarantine and get tested even though it's not mandatory. She'll be doing caring duties so she should qualify for a test, but from what I can find online they only test you if you have symptoms, and that it's only worth doing between the 3rd and 5th day. So I don't understand the logic of regular testing, though my sister really wants one or two so if anyone has any advice how to sort it I'd be grateful.

It's probably just to make people working in those jobs, and the people they care for, feel 'safe' rather than having any real clinical logic.

[Marshmallo]

Worth remembering that Jason "Nostradamus" Leitch said we would have fans back in Hampden tonight: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eveningexpress.co.uk/sport/scotland-hoping-to-use-israel-clash-to-trial-return-of-spectators/amp/

If he told me it was Friday today, I'd be checking the newspaper!

[Todd_is_God]

5 minutes ago, Rugster said:

Aye hundreds of thousands of people just rocked up for a test for the fun of it. 

To be fair, around 92,000 new people got themselves tested in the last 7 days, with only around 850 being positive.

[Rugster]

3 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

To be fair, around 92,000 new people got themselves tested in the last 7 days, with only around 850 being positive.

Your point is?

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, Rugster said:

Your point is?

That's almost 100,000 people in a week getting tested, many of which will be for no reason.

Unless you are telling me that 1.7% of the population legitimately had symptoms in the last 7 days, in which case I would tell you I don't believe you.

[PWL]

2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

It's probably just to make people working in those jobs, and the people they care for, feel 'safe' rather than having any real clinical logic.

With all due respect, you're talking through a hole in your arse. They work in specific area that makes the use of full PPE problematic. The wards in her unit have lost patients and a colleague already. The vulnerability of those involved means testing regularly is vital so that they can isolate any further outbreaks. 

 

[Rugster]

3 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

That's almost 100,000 people in a week getting tested, many of which will be for no reason.

Unless you are telling me that 1.7% of the population legitimately had symptoms in the last 7 days, in which case I would tell you I don't believe you.

You think it's unfeasible, that with schools recently back, that 100,000 people didn't have a temperature or a cough? 

People aren't just getting tested for the sake of it. It's an invasive, unpleasant test. You honestly think people are just going for a test for fun? 

Testing is increasing because schools are back, because of test and protect tracing, because the R number is higher, and because testing capacity is higher.