vikingTON Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Wee Bully said: I agree with all of this. Of course transmission takes place in schools - I’ve never argued it doesn’t. My issue with closing schools is that the impact will be felt most on the poorest members of our society, further entrenching social inequality. There is risk attached to all activity. The question is which risks are you willing to take for which benefits. The one thing is not about is the tired old trope of “Facebook maws”. As opposed to destroying entire sectors of the economy, causing mass unemployment and leaving a yawning black hole in the public finances which will of course affect Milngavie just as badly as Motherwell over the next generation. The question is not 'do schools have an important function?' but rather 'what must be done to curb a public health pandemic?'. There are no choices that do not involve costs. The issue with circling the wagons around schools is that for the short term sake of education that can be made good when the disease is under control, you are allowing a series of long-term destructive events to continue indefinitely that cannot be recovered from. The opportunity costs to this policy vastly outweigh the impact of punting weans into distance learning for six months when they're not even sitting final exams anyway. Edited December 21, 2020 by vikingTON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Sannox Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, The Golden God said: Tory MP here being very reasonable about the situation Andrew Bridgen opted to abstain in a recent vote because some of his Tory colleagues suggested that he was thick. Welt of a man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 He definitely seems it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said: Good to see you have overnight developed faith in the government's figures - the same SAGE you have rounded on at every opportunity. The current temporary closure makes sense until the facts are established around this new variant but just like every other measure a blanket school closure or move online longer term makes zero sense given there are many more schools with no or virtually no cases at any one time than there are with serious outbreaks. Yes deal with those with closures where needed but a blanket policy makes no sense. Except that nobody has actually argued for a blanket policy: 1) Where there is no community transmission then schools should remain open 2) Where there is they should not. This means putting school education into the adjustments of the regional tiers just like anything else - including of course further and higher education that has been adapting to this for months already. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Another presser from bojo this afternoon....rest of england in lockdown they reckon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Looks like nationwide restrictions could be the future for us. I'd be furious if I lived somewhere rural and couldn't leave the house due to high case numbers in Glasgow or Edinburgh. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aufc Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Looks like nationwide restrictions could be the future for us. I'd be furious if I lived somewhere rural and couldn't leave the house due to high case numbers in Glasgow or Edinburgh. Aye be like this till the vaccine is effective. Some laugh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 As opposed to destroying entire sectors of the economy, causing mass unemployment and leaving a yawning black hole in the public finances which will of course affect Milngavie just as badly as Motherwell over the next generation. The question is not 'do schools have an important function?' but rather 'what must be done to curb a public health pandemic?'. There are no choices that do not involve costs. The issue with circling the wagons around schools is that for the short term sake of education that can be made good when the disease is under control, you are allowing a series of long-term destructive events to continue indefinitely that cannot be recovered from. The opportunity costs to this policy vastly outweigh the impact of punting weans into distance learning for six months when they're not even sitting final exams anyway.I disagree - there is short term dislocation, but I don’t think “whole sectors of the economy” will be destroyed. Once this is over, we will be back in the pubs, at the football, on holiday etc.On the other hand, casting the worst off kids in society off, and ruining their life chances really is destroying their chances. I know you dispute this, but the teachers on here (you know, the ones with actual experience) have told you the impact of closing schools / moving to blended learning has on the worst off kids. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: Looks like nationwide restrictions could be the future for us. I'd be furious if I lived somewhere rural and couldn't leave the house due to high case numbers in Glasgow or Edinburgh. I have an impending feeling of doom that this is foreshadowing Johnson's press conference and possibly a follow up from Sturgeon. Did get a good chuckle at Sridhar thinking it's the Tiers that encourage people looking for loopholes though. It's the national sport. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Wee Bully said: I know you dispute this, but the teachers on here (you know, the ones with actual experience) have told you the impact of closing schools / moving to blended learning has on the worst off kids. Did we ever actually try blended learning? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, virginton said: Except that nobody has actually argued for a blanket policy: 1) Where there is no community transmission then schools should remain open 2) Where there is they should not. This means putting school education into the adjustments of the regional tiers just like anything else - including of course further and higher education that has been adapting to this for months already. Isn't there a danger of a double whammy in grinding in educational inequalities. Marmot's Build back Fairer report was clear that less advantaged children tended to fall farther behind than more advantaged ones during the blanket 1st Lockdown. Given that the more deprived quintiles see higher caseloads and therefore, generally, more deprived areas are likely to be in higher tiers longer.... doesn't that run the risk of leaving poorer kids even farther behind? Edited December 21, 2020 by renton 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Wee Bully said: I disagree - there is short term dislocation, but I don’t think “whole sectors of the economy” will be destroyed. Once this is over, we will be back in the pubs, at the football, on holiday etc. Will we all, aye? What pubs will still be open and how do you think a consumer-driven economy like the UK is going to get on when millions are relying on £80 a week Universal Credit to survive on? Your argument shows the sheer complacency of someone who think that they're alright and so everyone else will be as well. This not a short term dislocation for the millions who will be made unemployed by this ongoing farce. Quote On the other hand, casting the worst off kids in society off, and ruining their life chances really is destroying their chances. Utter pish. People are not 'cast off' by being asked to learn from home for a few months and then given the opportunity to catch up in the summer of 2021. Education is a lifelong process and the sooner that we demolish this obsession with churning through it like a job factory so that you get some graduate non-task at the earliest possible age, the better. But of course, the further education that actually fills the gap for the most disadvantaged students - as opposed to public schools which have an extremely patchy record on this - will have their funding hacked away at thanks to the economic slump and public finance restrictions caused by the keep schools open policy. Quote I know you dispute this, but the teachers on here (you know, the ones with actual experience) have told you the impact of closing schools / moving to blended learning has on the worst off kids. I've got plenty of experience of educating students both prior to and during this pandemic champ, get off your cross about the unique issues facing school education. Edited December 21, 2020 by vikingTON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 minute ago, renton said: Isn't there a danger of a double whammy in grinding in educational inequalities. Marmot's Build back Fairer report was clear that less advantaged children tended to fall farther behind than more advantaged ones during the blanket 1st Lockdown. Given that the more deprived quintiles see higher caseloads and therefore, generally, more deprived areas are likely to be in higher tiers longer.... doesn't that run the risk of leaving poorer kids e en farther behind? As opposed to the triple whammy (at least) of: - business failures and mass unemployment impacting the parents of the children in school - a severe and long-term crunch on public investment to develop opportunities/resources in low SIMD areas - subsequent limits on further education funding and opportunities to fill the gaps left by a patchy performance of the school education system This is not a 'No Child Left Behind Policy' - it is one to just make sure that the better equipped get to go through the jobs factory at the same time and efficiency as before. Which is why the exam results blew up into a public outcry. Having schools 'open' but littered with self isolated absences and disruption, only to punt then out the door at 16/17 into a hellscape economy is not a good outcome. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 Looks like nationwide restrictions could be the future for us. I'd be furious if I lived somewhere rural and couldn't leave the house due to high case numbers in Glasgow or Edinburgh. I was speaking to family in the Highlands last night, they don’t like it but will have to go along with it. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/20/as-covid-death-toll-soars-ever-higher-sweden-wonders-who-to-blame 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Reported on the main BBC news this lunchtime; that although Supermarkets presently have sufficient stocks of produce, ‘they are worried that supplies may becoming threatened over the next few days’. What a surefire and irresponsible way of creating another round of mass panic buying across the country, with people flocking to queue around the block at ASDA to snap up hordes of food that they don’t really need. I believe the next item, reported on the rising number of food banks, but had switched off by then. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markka Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Looks like nationwide restrictions could be the future for us. I'd be furious if I lived somewhere rural and couldn't leave the house due to high case numbers in Glasgow or Edinburgh. My cousin in the Highlands is going from tier 1 to tier 4 in one fell swoop. Very Rangersy that is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, ICTChris said: I was speaking to family in the Highlands last night, they don’t like it but will have to go along with it. What language did you conduct this conversation in? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Markka said: 38 minutes ago, Marshmallo said: Looks like nationwide restrictions could be the future for us. I'd be furious if I lived somewhere rural and couldn't leave the house due to high case numbers in Glasgow or Edinburgh. My cousin in the Highlands is going from tier 1 to tier 4 in one fell swoop. Very Rangersy that is. It's intolerable, had to bring forward my restaurant booking from next Monday to this Wednesday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Clockwork said: Reported on the main BBC news this lunchtime; that although Supermarkets presently have sufficient stocks of produce, ‘they are worried that supplies may becoming threatened over the next few days’. What a surefire and irresponsible way of creating another round of mass panic buying across the country, with people flocking to queue around the block at ASDA to snap up hordes of food that they don’t really need. I believe the next item, reported on the rising number of food banks, but had switched off by then. Yep, followed up by some Sainsbury's goon 'reassuring' the public that they have enough fresh stock for the moment. Top class media work right there. Edited December 21, 2020 by vikingTON 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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