Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Todd_is_God]

The SG have been particularly restrictive, though, more so than everywhere besides maybe Ireland.

We have therefore taken the brunt of the negative side effects of this cautious approach, and ultimately, despite the promises / justification for this approach saying otherwise, ended up no better off than anywhere else.

I think it's perfectly fair to not only highlight that the SG may have gotten their approach wrong over the summer, and be disappointed that they seem to be planning on taking a similar path again in 2021.

I agree with your last paragraph @WATTOO, but that isn't the vibe i'm getting from the SG. I fully expect us to be behind most of Europe in easing restrictions again, despite having a headstart on vaccinations.

From a realistic standpoint, I don't expect to be at the Scottish Grand National in April, or TRNSMT in July, but (on the assumption the oxford vaccine is a go-er) I do expect to be able to go out for dinner or go to a beer garden in the summer, and I do expect to be able to go to Hamilton Park in August.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The SG have been particularly restrictive, though, more so than everywhere besides maybe Ireland.
We have therefore taken the brunt of the negative side effects of this cautious approach, and ultimately ended up no better off than anywhere else.
I think it's perfectly fair to not only highlight that the SG may have gotten their approach wrong over the summer, and be disappointed that they seem to be planning on taking a similar path again in 2021.
I agree with your last paragraph [mention=39137]WATTOO[/mention], but that isn't the vibe i'm getting from the SG. I fully expect us to be behind most of Europe in easing restrictions again, despite having a headstart on vaccinations.

I'll ask again - seeing you didn't respond before - do you still believe that this is over as public health crisis?

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Pathetic mate. Truly pathetic.

But True, there's at least 8 posters on here who run in a pack and come across as arrogant, egotistical w**ks who it's impossible to have any sort of conversation / debate with, they're not interested in anyone else's viewpoint but their own and honestly believe that they are always right and everyone else is wrong.

I've got most of them on filter / ignore now as their posting style is very difficult to take and engaging them in any way is generally pointless.

Ultimately this is all about personal opinions and viewpoints and using the evidence at our disposal to formulate an argument, we might not agree but if someone backs up an argument with decent reasoning / evidence then that should be debated, however too many on here just want to shut down discussion and pursue their own agenda at all costs, that to me is pathetic and is why I've found myself having to filter so many people which on a discussion board really is quite sad......

[vikingTON]

Just now, WATTOO said:

But True, there's at least 8 posters on here who run in a pack and come across as arrogant, egotistical w**ks who it's impossible to have any sort of conversation / debate with, they're not interested in anyone else's viewpoint but their own and honestly believe that they are always right and everyone else is wrong.

I've got most of them on filter / ignore now as their posting style is very difficult to take and engaging them in any way is generally pointless.

Ultimately this is all about personal opinions and viewpoints and using the evidence at our disposal to formulate an argument, we might not agree but if someone backs up an argument with decent reasoning / evidence then that should be debated, however too many on here just want to shut down discussion and pursue their own agenda at all costs, that to me is pathetic and is why I've found myself having to filter so many people which on a discussion board really is quite sad......

The irony of trying to wail about why oh why everyone else apart from you can't engage in informed debate, while mentioning your ignore list as if anybody gives a toss about it is absolutely fucking delicious.

Jog on you clown.

[Miguel Sanchez]

4 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Ultimately this is all about personal opinions and viewpoints and using the evidence at our disposal to formulate an argument, we might not agree but if someone backs up an argument with decent reasoning / evidence then that should be debated,

If the best you can offer to back up "it was basically life as normal in summer" is "I got to go golfing with my mates" and "I don't care if some young people didn't get to go clubbing" then it's no wonder nobody wants to debate your arguments.

[madwullie]

1 hour ago, djchapsticks said:

A guy whose opinion is given a large amount of credence by the Scottish Government given his omnipresence in the covid briefings.

Because a vast majority of people on here don't buy his shite, doesn't mean the populace in general don't, unfortunately.

It wasn't the general populace that were up in arms on here this morning though, as if Leitch was the pope and it was a divine pronouncement. 

Everyone here says he talks shite and nothing he says has any weight, yet he says something like that qualified statement this morning and it's like the sky is falling in. 

If you don't think what he says has any weight, why are you bothering about what he says. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by madwullie

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

The SG have been particularly restrictive, though, more so than everywhere besides maybe Ireland.

We have therefore taken the brunt of the negative side effects of this cautious approach, and ultimately, despite the promises / justification for this approach saying otherwise, ended up no better off than anywhere else.

I think it's perfectly fair to not only highlight that the SG may have gotten their approach wrong over the summer, and be disappointed that they seem to be planning on taking a similar path again in 2021.

I agree with your last paragraph @WATTOO, but that isn't the vibe i'm getting from the SG. I fully expect us to be behind most of Europe in easing restrictions again, despite having a headstart on vaccinations.

From a realistic standpoint, I don't expect to be at the Scottish Grand National in April, or TRNSMT in July, but (on the assumption the oxford vaccine is a go-er) I do expect to be able to go out for dinner or go to a beer garden in the summer, and I do expect to be able to go to Hamilton Park in August.

I'd agree that the SG are probably erring on the side of caution (rightly or wrongly) but would hope that by the summer we would be looking at a return to normality, obviously with the caveat that the vaccine is proving successful and the roll out of said vaccine / vaccines has also been successful.

There's no doubt that mistakes have been made but again this has been the case in most countries, some would argue our restrictions have been too strict and others would argue that they've not been strict enough as borders should maybe have been closed (although this is a UK issue as not devolved).

Oh well, our viewpoints on the virus may contrast, however it's good to see you're a "horsey man", so you can't be all bad !!

[djchapsticks]

12 minutes ago, madwullie said:

It wasn't the general populace that were up in arms on here this morning though, as if Leitch was the pope and it was a divine pronouncement. 

Everyone here says he talks shite and nothing he says has any weight, yet he says something like that qualified statement this morning and it's like the sky is falling in. 

If you don't think what he says has any weight, why are you bothering about what he says. 

On the contrary, what he says does carry weight, a lot more than it should.

That people believe what he says is a load of shite, has no bearing on the amount of weight his words carry.

[renton]

This is the speech Freeman delivered to parliament on the 23rd.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/covid-vaccines-testing-programmes-health-secretarys-statement-wednesday-23-december/

Some interesting stuff about resting capacity, but I've quoted the bits on vaccines.

Quote

Turning now to our vaccination programme - our NHS Scotland vaccination programme began on 8 December. In the period to 20^th December, 56,676 people received their first dose.

This includes care home residents and staff, and patient-facing NHS staff. Depending on supply delivery, we will complete the second dose vaccinations to residents in care homes for older people and their carers, and those frontline health and care staff during January.

I have previously outlined the challenges in delivering the Pfizer vaccine - such as stability in transportation, storage requirements, and pack sizes. These issues have limited our capacity to take the vaccine everywhere it is needed.

Scottish Government health officials, our Boards, and the MHRA have worked to mitigate these issues and help streamline our process of deploying the vaccines.

Thanks to their efforts we are now able to safely reduce pack size which has allowed the care home programme to begin and the transport challenges of getting the vaccine to all of our islands to be resolved.

We anticipate receiving a total of 172,575 doses of the Pfizer vaccine by the end of this week, 50% of which we will retain so we can be sure to give those vaccinated the second dose after the 21 days required.

A key area that would help streamline the process further is predictability of delivery. But this is not in our gift. Safety is a paramount concern and there is rigorous process of safety checks between the vaccine leaving the factory in Belgium and arriving in the UK and then arriving in Scotland.

These checks mean while we know when the vaccine leaves the factory, we cannot be certain of the date we will receive it. This is a challenge for our forward planning but it is one we share across all the 4 nations of the UK and we are working together to resolve this with the regulator and the distributor. And I expect at my normal weekly meeting of the 4 nation health ministers tomorrow that will be another item that we will continue to discuss.

The JCVI’s recommendation for the delivery of a COVID-19 vaccine is that prioritisation should first be given those with the greatest clinical need.

Taken together vaccinating that JCVI list will help reduce around 99% of preventable mortality from COVID-19. This is clearly a compelling rationale and it is right that we follow this advice.

Those who are clinically extremely vulnerable are high on the JCVI prioritisation list, alongside those aged 70 and over. I understand the concern around those who are terminally ill who want, if at all possible to receive the vaccine earlier.

Both Matt Hancock and I have written to the JCVI asking them for further consideration and clarity on this one group for all the reasons that I know members will understand.

Right now we have access to just one vaccine. In the near future we hope that it will be two.

The new Astra Zeneca vaccine – should it get MHRA approval - does not need to be stored at ultra-low temperatures, and is easier to transport.

That means that we will be able to deploy it in far wider settings than has been the case for Pfizer. Dependent on JCVI advice, we will likely use it to prioritise vaccination of the over 80s who are not care home residents, and for this group to largely be vaccinated in GP settings.

Should the Astra Zeneca vaccine be approved before the end of this calendar year then we anticipate that we will be able to commence vaccination from primary care locations from Monday 11 January.

Vaccine supplies permitting, we aim to have vaccinated all those on the JCVI prioritisation list in the spring. Once we have completed this group, and again dependent on vaccination supplies, we will commence vaccination of the rest of the population

So, the expectation she is setting out is to have the JCVI list complete in the Spring. To do so would require the AZ/Oxford vaccine to get it done in that time based on the logistical difficulties of dealing with the Pfizer vaccine and a supply chain outwith government control.

Obviously if you can guarantee a vaccine supply then the bottleneck moves to the NHS delivery of the vaccine but reading from the above, it seems like that isn't the primary issue currently.

It could end up being quicker, and obviously the Daily Mail reporting from UK government sources want 15 million done by end of February (or start of Spring) so maybe there isn't a huge difference in what different sources are saying. Spring is a three month window, after all.

After the JCVI list is done we will know more about what level of residual restrictions are required. In the meantime the level of restrcitins required will mirror the community transmission rates. If we turn over that list in the next two and a bit months, and hospital cases drop to nothing then there wouldn't be much of a case for keeping much if any restrictions. And if the vaccines do have an effect on limiting transmission as well as stopping severity of symptoms, we might well be home free. On the other hand, the efficiacy of one or both vaccines might end up being lower in the general populace than recorded in tests. It shouldn't be, but you can understand why they would want to see the effect on hospital admissions at least before committing to timeliness for easing restrictions.

Edited December 27, 2020 by renton

[Wee Bully]

The SG have been particularly restrictive, though, more so than everywhere besides maybe Ireland.
We have therefore taken the brunt of the negative side effects of this cautious approach, and ultimately, despite the promises / justification for this approach saying otherwise, ended up no better off than anywhere else.
I think it's perfectly fair to not only highlight that the SG may have gotten their approach wrong over the summer, and be disappointed that they seem to be planning on taking a similar path again in 2021.
I agree with your last paragraph [mention=39137]WATTOO[/mention], but that isn't the vibe i'm getting from the SG. I fully expect us to be behind most of Europe in easing restrictions again, despite having a headstart on vaccinations.
From a realistic standpoint, I don't expect to be at the Scottish Grand National in April, or TRNSMT in July, but (on the assumption the oxford vaccine is a go-er) I do expect to be able to go out for dinner or go to a beer garden in the summer, and I do expect to be able to go to Hamilton Park in August.

I agree that the SG has taken a more restrictive approach, especially since June / July.

This is reflected in the numbers of cases per 100k, deaths and hospitalisations being far lower than the rest of GB - our nearest comparator.

I also want to be in the beer garden in the summer, and I would hope to be at Hamilton Park in August for Saints and Sinners. I’ll happily buy you a pint if we make it.

Whether the SG has taken the right approach or not will become clearer in the coming months. I’ve got real worries that the NHS in England and Wales will be unable to cope, but I’ve less fear of that here (atm).

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

9 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

 

I agree that the SG has taken a more restrictive approach, especially since June / July.

This is reflected in the numbers of cases per 100k, deaths and hospitalisations being far lower than the rest of GB - our nearest comparator.

I also want to be in the beer garden in the summer, and I would hope to be at Hamilton Park in August for Saints and Sinners. I’ll happily buy you a pint if we make it.

Whether the SG has taken the right approach or not will become clearer in the coming months. I’ve got real worries that the NHS in England and Wales will be unable to cope, but I’ve less fear of that here (atm).

 

Clinicians are warning health services could be overwhelmed...

Prof Jason Leitch denied the system could be overwhelmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55458992

[Wee Bully]

Clinicians are warning health services could be overwhelmed...
Prof Jason Leitch denied the system could be overwhelmed.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55458992

So, what should we do then?

I don’t actually think they are saying different things - they are both saying it could be overwhelmed if we don’t have restrictions. The Clinicians are saying we need them, Leitch is saying we have them and provided we keep to them, the NHS won’t be overwhelmed.

[HeartsOfficialMoaner]

Just now, Wee Bully said:

So, what should we do then?

Get drunk.

[Thereisalight..]

I wonder how many of the folk on here with the mindset of "one covid death is one too many", were happily going about their business every other year not worried about spreading colds/flu to the elderly and vulnerable which could potentially kill them. What makes this so different? 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Thereisalight..

[peasy23]

Turns out there are some things that money can't buy.

[Thereisalight..]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Driver said:

Probably the fact it's far worse than the cold/flu?   

Cold and flu kills elderly/vulnerable though

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I wonder how many of the folk on here with the mindset of "one covid death is one too many", were happily going about their business every other year not worried about spreading colds/flu to the elderly and vulnerable which could potentially kill them. What makes this so different? 

Because this isn't the cold or flu.

The mortality rate for Covid-19 is substantially higher (anywhere from 3 to 10 times or more) than that of most strains of the flu.

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

It's a bold move calling anyone else a sad w****r given the sanctimonious shite you offer at anyone who criticises Leitch or anyone else involved in the more poorly handled aspects of this pandemic.

It's especially ironic given your insistence that going shopping for biscuits in April was a two-person operation. 

Have you been invited into the clique Miguel?  I hope so, I really do, you’re efforts deserve to be rewarded.

[Miguel Sanchez]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

Have you been invited into the clique Miguel?  I hope so, I really do, you’re efforts deserve to be rewarded.

*your

Of course, any pretence at good faith posting you had in this thread disappeared long ago, so carry on if it entertains you.

[Granny Danger]

Just now, Miguel Sanchez said:

*your

Of course, any pretence at good faith posting you had in this thread disappeared long ago, so carry on if it entertains you.

I apologise for the poor grammar.  That second sentence goes way beyond irony when you consider who you’re lining up beside on here.  Incredible lack of self awareness.