Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[vikingTON]

That 'it's only for three weeks' claim being shown for the lie that it was from day one of new restrictions I see. Still no sign of the SG's promised "adult conversation" with the public about their shan strategy emerging this year. 

[Wee Bully]

That 'it's only for three weeks' claim being shown for the lie that it was from day one of new restrictions I see. Still no sign of the SG's promised "adult conversation" with the public about their shan strategy emerging this year. 

What exactly do you mean by “adult conversation”?

[Paco]

There was quite notably no promise that Level 4 would be for three weeks on this occasion. Review dates were stated but nothing else committed to. The SAGE advice published a few days ago which informed the national Level 4 decision was quite clear that schools can’t be open if R is to stay below 1 - IF the new variant is as contagious as preliminary research suggested. And given schools are the stated priority of both the Scottish and UK Governments is schools....

To me, that means indefinite Level 4 until such time as something materially changes. Either new research shows the new variant isn’t as bad as thought, or we hit some sort of tipping point in vaccine numbers where we decide to start scaling restrictions back.

The rest of England will be in Tier 4 by early January, it’s simply the usual dithering that’s stopping it right now. That’ll bring the full UK into variants of Level 4. In amongst the absolute fiasco of Christmas restrictions changing was an absolute hammer blow to the current situation. I remain hopeful it doesn’t change the long-term picture as vaccines should still be effective, but short-term it’s Level 4. Doesn’t seem people have realised that yet.

[Bairnardo]

The absolutely standard mutating of the virus, the prevalence levels worldwide and the utterly astronomical costs associated with temporarily suppressing its spread, and the obvious impossibility of eliminating the virus completely should be seeing us moving away from these types of restrictions rapidly. Especially in the case of Scotland where we are doing this shit pre emptively. I just cant fathom how we are now talking about 2021 being consigned to the bin.

Honestly, I have no fucking idea what we are doing anymore. The virus is making it very easy for everyone to understand that it's going nowhere. That our leaders respond to that by pretty much telling us that we can forget about having a life* for another year is baffling to me because quite frankly if they are unable or unwilling to return life to normal within the next year, they are unfit to be in charge.

*for "having a life" assume that I also mean have healthcare, education, jobs, holidays etc as well as day to day stuff me might enjoy.

[Steven W]

I despair reading that from Leitch. We'll all be round the twist if restrictions are to last that long.

That said entirely predictable reading.

[welshbairn]

9 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

What exactly do you mean by “adult conversation”?

Obviously promising everything will be fine and dandy and completely back to normal in a couple of months, with a new more infectious virus strain we no little about.

[Billy Jean King]

Mr Leitch added: “We said we want to vaccinate the particularly at risk group by the summer if we get vaccine supply which depends on manufacturing and regulation.
The other thing I need from people is patience, it's going to take a bit longer yet.

That was most definitely not the timescales the Govt were working towards. The "million by end January" would cover the groups Leitch is now saying will take until the summer. Either there is an imminent disaster with the Oxford vaccine or he's talking out his arse.

[Bairnardo]

Mr Leitch added: “We said we want to vaccinate the particularly at risk group by the summer if we get vaccine supply which depends on manufacturing and regulation.
The other thing I need from people is patience, it's going to take a bit longer yet.

That was most definitely not the timescales the Govt were working towards. The "million by end January" would cover the groups Leitch is now saying will take until the summer. Either there is an imminent disaster with the Oxford vaccine or he's talking out his arse.

Yep. Quite why these people are so blase about adding months on to this at the drop of a hat is beyond me.

[vikingTON]

15 minutes ago, Wee Bully said:

What exactly do you mean by “adult conversation”?

- No drip feeding of 'review in a fortnight' when announcing measures before making it apparent on day one of implementing them that they'll be keeping them for fucking months. Nothing has changed since last week so if they want to do that then say it at the time. 

- Set out the reasoning for specific restrictions/changes based on hard evidence and making it clear how much each sector contributes to infection. As opposed to parroting 'schools are safe' when in terms of stopping community infection, they absolutely are not.

- Actually use shielding instead of this pretend nonsense that if the whole of society hibernates then this will magically keep old fatties safe

- Stop moving the goalposts in terms of i) the number of vaccinations the SG will deliver and how many are needed before we can launch this shite into the sea.

 

[Paco]

Mr Leitch added: “We said we want to vaccinate the particularly at risk group by the summer if we get vaccine supply which depends on manufacturing and regulation.
The other thing I need from people is patience, it's going to take a bit longer yet.

That was most definitely not the timescales the Govt were working towards. The "million by end January" would cover the groups Leitch is now saying will take until the summer. Either there is an imminent disaster with the Oxford vaccine or he's talking out his arse.

The million by January was consigned to the bin very shortly after Freeman said it (if it was ever likely) by Pfizer failing to hit delivery targets. Scotland should’ve had a million doses by next week but instead will be at about 250,000 in the best case scenario.

The Oxford one should be coming very soon and numbers should really begin to climb after it does. Nothing over the last few weeks makes me anticipate a huge change to what summer 2021 was always going to look like, but the road to get there is going to be bumpier.

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

Mr Leitch added: “We said we want to vaccinate the particularly at risk group by the summer if we get vaccine supply which depends on manufacturing and regulation.
The other thing I need from people is patience, it's going to take a bit longer yet.

That was most definitely not the timescales the Govt were working towards. The "million by end January" would cover the groups Leitch is now saying will take until the summer. Either there is an imminent disaster with the Oxford vaccine or he's talking out his arse.

Pfizer and AZ are both way down on their promised production and delivery targets. Pfizer promised 10 million to the UK by the end of this month, I don't think they've reached one million yet. Last I heard AZ hadn't got a single batch ready for delivery produced in the UK.

[Bairnardo]

Pfizer and AZ are both way down on their promised production and delivery targets. Pfizer promised 10 million to the UK by the end of this month, I don't think they've reached one million yet. Last I heard AZ hadn't got a single batch ready for delivery produced in the UK.

So we have ran out of stock then and cannot resume vaccination until the next delivery?

[super_carson]

This is the issue with advisers like Leitch and Sridhar being able to get their face and voice on every media outlet going. They are supposed to be advisers, yet Leitch in particular seems to think he can issue decrees via his pals in the media. I know that sounds very cynical but I’m just at a loss as to why these media appearances are seemingly condoned by Sturgeon, especially when clear communication has been one of the strengths of her leadership.

We need to be demanding better from the government. It’s not enough to say we need to be patient while they keep moving the goal posts and keep us in an indefinite lockdown, especially when they are saying it’s a preventative measure up here (compared to the other home nations at least). As has been said by quite a few folk already, we are hardly being allowed to live our lives just now. I can see public opinion turning if these measure last as long as Leitch claims.

[welshbairn]

19 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

19 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Pfizer and AZ are both way down on their promised production and delivery targets. Pfizer promised 10 million to the UK by the end of this month, I don't think they've reached one million yet. Last I heard AZ hadn't got a single batch ready for delivery produced in the UK.

So we have ran out of stock then and cannot resume vaccination until the next delivery?

I've no idea. Do you have evidence they're being slow with the supplies they've got?

P.S. I see @Szamo's_Ammo has finally got the urgent WhatsApp message.

P.P.S. 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by welshbairn

[Bairnardo]

This is the issue with advisers like Leitch and Sridhar being able to get their face and voice on every media outlet going. They are supposed to be advisers, yet Leitch in particular seems to think he can issue decrees via his pals in the media. I know that sounds very cynical but I’m just at a loss as to why these media appearances are seemingly condoned by Sturgeon, especially when clear communication has been one of the strengths of her leadership.

We need to be demanding better from the government. It’s not enough to say we need to be patient while they keep moving the goal posts and keep us in an indefinite lockdown, especially when they are saying it’s a preventative measure up here (compared to the other home nations at least). As has been said by quite a few folk already, we are hardly being allowed to live our lives just now. I can see public opinion turning if these measure last as long as Leitch claims.

They have been implemented in spite of case numbers not because of them, with the excuses of the xmas day relaxation and the new variant and the need to "wait and see". Personally I can just about swallow the 3 weeks. After that, if restrictions arent governed by case numbers then they can get in the fucking bin.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

This is the issue with advisers like Leitch and Sridhar being able to get their face and voice on every media outlet going. They are supposed to be advisers, yet Leitch in particular seems to think he can issue decrees via his pals in the media. I know that sounds very cynical but I’m just at a loss as to why these media appearances are seemingly condoned by Sturgeon, especially when clear communication has been one of the strengths of her leadership.

We need to be demanding better from the government. It’s not enough to say we need to be patient while they keep moving the goal posts and keep us in an indefinite lockdown, especially when they are saying it’s a preventative measure up here (compared to the other home nations at least). As has been said by quite a few folk already, we are hardly being allowed to live our lives just now. I can see public opinion turning if these measure last as long as Leitch claims.

Just like lockdown one showed us, if you keep it in place too long people just ignore it en masse .

[Bairnardo]

I've no idea. Do you have evidence they're being slow with the supplies they've got?

No. I never said they are "being slow" I said they could be going faster. This would be backed up by the facts that, they arent banging down the door for new supplies, they havent actually implemented any special measures for vaccine rollout, and the petty refusal of Nicola Sturgeon to answer a totally reasonable question from Leonard the other day about how she intended to speed up vaccination.

It's a logical impossibility to say they cant improve on the speed of the vaccine roll out anyway tbh, but I dont think you can honestly argue the point here that more can be done. And given how much so many people are paying whilst we wait, I think it's quite literally the most relevant point of contention there is. I am stunned at the attitude of "just sit tight folks, they will get the vaccine to us in due course"

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, super_carson said:

This is the issue with advisers like Leitch and Sridhar being able to get their face and voice on every media outlet going. They are supposed to be advisers, yet Leitch in particular seems to think he can issue decrees via his pals in the media. I know that sounds very cynical but I’m just at a loss as to why these media appearances are seemingly condoned by Sturgeon, especially when clear communication has been one of the strengths of her leadership.

We need to be demanding better from the government. It’s not enough to say we need to be patient while they keep moving the goal posts and keep us in an indefinite lockdown, especially when they are saying it’s a preventative measure up here (compared to the other home nations at least). As has been said by quite a few folk already, we are hardly being allowed to live our lives just now. I can see public opinion turning if these measure last as long as Leitch claims.

I would suggest it's quite clear now that that just isn't going to happen.

[super_carson]

They have been implemented in spite of case numbers not because of them, with the excuses of the xmas day relaxation and the new variant and the need to "wait and see". Personally I can just about swallow the 3 weeks. After that, if restrictions arent governed by case numbers then they can get in the fucking bin.

Whilst I don’t disagree with you, and I could similarly support 3 weeks of restrictions to get better understanding of the mutation, I’m deeply concerned by the fact that they are already talking about returning to an indefinite march style lockdown before we had even moved into tier 4. I can’t see them lifting these restrictions until March at the earliest, regardless of whether or not case numbers are low.

[101]

25 minutes ago, virginton said:

Actually use shielding instead of this pretend nonsense that if the whole of society hibernates then this will magically keep old fatties safe

Unbelievable, why not look at the hundred of conditions that were in the shielding category rather than resort the the frankly offensive "old fatties" maybe instead of an adult conversation the Scottish population is getting the exact kind of conversation it deserves.