Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[Parttimesupporter]

1 hour ago, Flash said:

Q & A with SPFL chairman.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52472021

"What would have caused major damage, not only to Partick Thistle, but to clubs the length and breadth of the country, would have been to 'kick the can down the road', deny the funds to clubs that were literally on their knees and watch possibly dozens of them going to the wall."

Dozens?  Really?  I can see that some clubs might have been unable to make April payroll.  That wouldn't have been nice for anyone involved, but it's not the same as 'going to the wall'.

I'm not sure I can recall anyone arguing that funds shouldn't be released.  The debate was whether payments could be made without finalising promotion and relegation issues (achievable by a change to the Articles) or by making loans. 

There are arguments against loans, but the comparison with the Gretna situation is disingenuous.  Presumably the loan proposal would have been that clubs could apply for a loan capped at the level of the payment calculated using the PPG formula.  A slight risk there that if matches resumed and the team fared worse they could be liable for a repayment they couldn't afford, but not comparable at all to the Gretna situation.

Having said that, the EGM proposal is still dead in the water unless the whisteblower has substantially more than we've seen so far. 

[Granny Danger]

3 hours ago, Flash said:

Q & A with SPFL chairman.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52472021

Good, well considered answers imo.

[stewartyftd1]

Pointing out the vocal clubs have their own motives which is quite clearly the case.

[Bishop Briggs]

3 hours ago, Flash said:

Q & A with SPFL chairman.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52472021

What a load of self-serving nonsense!!! 

"In the ordinary course of events, we would have called an Extraordinary General Meeting at Hampden Park for all clubs to debate the resolution and vote on a show of hands. However, with the lockdown in place, the Board did not have this option available and instead used a directors written resolution procedure."

No mention of holding a EGM by video conference! Later on in the statement, he talks of holding video conferences with the clubs. So what was the real reason for using the written resolution procedure? To minimise face-to-face discussion and debate?

"In retrospect, perhaps we should not have urged clubs to get their responses to us by Good Friday, but instead have asked for responses by a date during the following week.... We should also bear in mind, that, by the time the resolution was circulated to Members, it had been almost four weeks since the suspension of all football in Scotland."

Did they delay circulation minimise discussion time and bulldoze through the SPFL agenda?

"The view of the Board was that 'points per game' was the fairest way of ranking clubs when clubs had played different numbers of matches."

Tellingly, there is no mention of any other leagues that have used that method to decide promotion and relegation.

"There is always a balance to be struck between giving clubs enough detail, but not overloading them with excessive information."

That says, in effect that the SPFL does not trust clubs with the details even though they have boards and teams of professional advisers. They have extensive experience of dealing with lengthy documents on legal and financial issues. So why the secrecy?

"Clearly, nobody knows how clubs are going to vote until they actually vote. All we could do was present the facts and enable the clubs to make up their own minds."

So the SPFL did not lobby or communicate with Dundee between receiving the club's NO vote and the new YES vote being submitted? The rest of the statement suggests that it probably did.

"Imagine the furore if we'd refused to give any update on how voting had gone. I know that the League's PR team received numerous calls from journalists in the minutes after 5pm, desperate for an update on the voting. If we hadn't published those numbers we would have been accused of unwarranted secrecy. We were simply being open and transparent."

This is pure deflection. The SPFL should have released a simple statement that said that the resolution was yet to be decided because a few clubs had yet to vote. That statement should also have pointed out that, legally, those clubs had up to 28 days to vote. PR is obviously more important to the SPFL than integrity and due process.

"We spoke to all 42 clubs by video conference on the day the resolution was sent out." 

So why not hold an EGM (see above) by video conference rather than a written resolution?

"Subsequently, many calls were made between the SPFL Chief Executive and clubs, and between clubs themselves at all levels of the game, between Wednesday 8 April and Wednesday 15 April, when Dundee FC finally submitted their return to adopt the resolution."

So, during those calls, did the SPFL lobby Dundee to vote YES between Friday 10th April and Wednesday 15th April? Were other clubs encouraged by the SPFL to lobby Dundee during that period? Will the SPFL release details of such conversations and communications?

"I accept that the resolution was the only realistic option available."

This is yet more nonsense. Other leagues in Britain and Europe have declared the season null and void. The Eredivisie is not awarding a title or relegating any clubs. Like the Dutch and other countries, the SPFL had other realistic options.

"We have to remember that the league is a sporting competition. Each year we have promotion and championship wins for successful clubs, and regrettably relegation for the unsuccessful. In these unique circumstances, where remaining fixtures simply cannot be played, a solution needed to be found to draw a line under the season and to make final fee payments to clubs."

The solution could have been to abolish promotion and relegation but, like the Dutch, award prize money based on the final positions. There was no need to decide relegation by an arbitrary (and unprecedented points) per game rule.

"We acted firmly in the best interests of all member clubs."

Except those that will be relegated, based on average points, with a quarter of the season left.

 

 

 

[Shadow Play]

The view of the Board was that 'points per game' was the fairest way of ranking clubs when clubs had played different numbers of matches."
 

......and yet the Juniors and kid’s football have decided the fairest way was to null and void their seasons and therefore not to have promotions or relegations.  It’s amazing the difference in opinions.............when TV money doesn’t corrupt thinking.

[Derry Alli]

1 hour ago, stewartyftd1 said:

Pointing out the vocal clubs have their own motives which is quite clearly the case.

Every club would have had their own motive or they wouldn't have bothered to vote. 

[Rudolph Hucker]

32 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

What a load of self-serving nonsense!!! 

"In the ordinary course of events, we would have called an Extraordinary General Meeting at Hampden Park for all clubs to debate the resolution and vote on a show of hands. However, with the lockdown in place, the Board did not have this option available and instead used a directors written resolution procedure."

No mention of holding a EGM by video conference! Later on in the statement, he talks of holding video conferences with the clubs. So what was the real reason for using the written resolution procedure? To minimise face-to-face discussion and debate?

"In retrospect, perhaps we should not have urged clubs to get their responses to us by Good Friday, but instead have asked for responses by a date during the following week.... We should also bear in mind, that, by the time the resolution was circulated to Members, it had been almost four weeks since the suspension of all football in Scotland."

Did they delay circulation minimise discussion time and bulldoze through the SPFL agenda?

"The view of the Board was that 'points per game' was the fairest way of ranking clubs when clubs had played different numbers of matches."

Tellingly, there is no mention of any other leagues that have used that method to decide promotion and relegation.

"There is always a balance to be struck between giving clubs enough detail, but not overloading them with excessive information."

That says, in effect that the SPFL does not trust clubs with the details even though they have boards and teams of professional advisers. They have extensive experience of dealing with lengthy documents on legal and financial issues. So why the secrecy?

"Clearly, nobody knows how clubs are going to vote until they actually vote. All we could do was present the facts and enable the clubs to make up their own minds."

So the SPFL did not lobby or communicate with Dundee between receiving the club's NO vote and the new YES vote being submitted? The rest of the statement suggests that it probably did.

"Imagine the furore if we'd refused to give any update on how voting had gone. I know that the League's PR team received numerous calls from journalists in the minutes after 5pm, desperate for an update on the voting. If we hadn't published those numbers we would have been accused of unwarranted secrecy. We were simply being open and transparent."

This is pure deflection. The SPFL should have released a simple statement that said that the resolution was yet to be decided because a few clubs had yet to vote. That statement should also have pointed out that, legally, those clubs had up to 28 days to vote. PR is obviously more important to the SPFL than integrity and due process.

"We spoke to all 42 clubs by video conference on the day the resolution was sent out." 

So why not hold an EGM (see above) by video conference rather than a written resolution?

"Subsequently, many calls were made between the SPFL Chief Executive and clubs, and between clubs themselves at all levels of the game, between Wednesday 8 April and Wednesday 15 April, when Dundee FC finally submitted their return to adopt the resolution."

So, during those calls, did the SPFL lobby Dundee to vote YES between Friday 10th April and Wednesday 15th April? Were other clubs encouraged by the SPFL to lobby Dundee during that period? Will the SPFL release details of such conversations and communications?

"I accept that the resolution was the only realistic option available."

This is yet more nonsense. Other leagues in Britain and Europe have declared the season null and void. The Eredivisie is not awarding a title or relegating any clubs. Like the Dutch and other countries, the SPFL had other realistic options.

"We have to remember that the league is a sporting competition. Each year we have promotion and championship wins for successful clubs, and regrettably relegation for the unsuccessful. In these unique circumstances, where remaining fixtures simply cannot be played, a solution needed to be found to draw a line under the season and to make final fee payments to clubs."

The solution could have been to abolish promotion and relegation but, like the Dutch, award prize money based on the final positions. There was no need to decide relegation by an arbitrary (and unprecedented points) per game rule.

"We acted firmly in the best interests of all member clubs."

Except those that will be relegated, based on average points, with a quarter of the season left.

If you’d made it quite clear that your first line was a succinct précis of your entire post you would have saved me the time wasted in reading on.

Not that your opinion is slanted, biased or self-interested in any way, shape or form of course, oh no.

[Szamo's_Ammo]

I really, really just want Hearts and Partick relegated.

It's the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning and the last thing I think of at night.

[vikingTON]

44 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

The view of the Board was that 'points per game' was the fairest way of ranking clubs when clubs had played different numbers of matches."
 

......and yet the Juniors and kid’s football have decided the fairest way was to null and void their seasons and therefore not to have promotions or relegations.  It’s amazing the difference in opinions.............when TV money doesn’t corrupt thinking.

Utter bollocks:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11461124/auchinleck-talbot-west-premiership/

The West Juniors specifically used PPG to award titles in their respective divisions and didn't award promotion and relegation on the same basis because they're all planning to jump ship to the West of Scotland league from 20/21 anyway. So much for the unblemished Corinthian values of the Junior game then!

[Sergeant Wilson]

10 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

I really, really just want Hearts and Partick relegated.

It's the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning and the last thing I think of at night.

3x14 is a shite solution.

 

On the other hand it royally fūcks Clyde!

[Shadow Play]

22 minutes ago, virginton said:

Utter bollocks:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11461124/auchinleck-talbot-west-premiership/

The West Juniors specifically used PPG to award titles in their respective divisions and didn't award promotion and relegation on the same basis because they're all planning to jump ship to the West of Scotland league from 20/21 anyway. So much for the unblemished Corinthian values of the Junior game then!

Apologies V’TON I didn’t mean to upset you.  I was only speaking about my area of the country.  I try not to concern myself with local footballing matters in the west of the country. 

[Pull My Strings]

41 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

I really, really just want Hearts and Partick relegated.

It's the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning and the last thing I think of at night.

Sporting integrity demands it!

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Partick fans seem a bit upset by all of this.

If their team hadn't been so shite for most of the season they wouldn't be in the position they are.

It's no different to teams who have missed out on a play-off and the chance of promotion - shite happens get over it.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

3 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Partick fans seem a bit upset by all of this.

If their team hadn't been so shite for most of the season they wouldn't be in the position they are.

It's no different to teams who have missed out on a play-off and the chance of promotion - shite happens get over it.

Unless I've missed it I've naw saw much greeting from Dundee, ICT and Ayr fans (or, to a lesser extent, Pars, Arbroath fans or ourselves) about being denied promotion. It might have been a long shot for our clubs but, then again, so was Partick staying up.

[vikingTON]

Don't forget the fact that Partick chucked money at a stack of mercenary signings in January to take them out of danger, only to fail to win a single league game this calendar year: they well and truly 'Falkirked' it.

Seems only right then that the Scottish footballing gods punish them with slumming it alongside the original floundering failure act in the seaside leagues next season.

[DiegoDiego]

Unless I've missed it I've naw saw much greeting from Dundee, ICT and Ayr fans (or, to a lesser extent, Pars, Arbroath fans or ourselves) about being denied promotion. It might have been a long shot for our clubs but, then again, so was Partick staying up.

Actually, going by Elo Thistle were more likely than not to avoid last place.

ICT fans aren't greeting because they know that they've more chance of promotion with league reconstruction than if the season finishes as usual.

Ayr fans are taking the opportunity to bleat through stifled tears about how much they're totally over their ex.

Dundee fans are trying to deflect from their board's catastrophe by running around the forum claiming others are on the verge of tears.

Dundee United fans, having been denied a fitting celebration to a championship victory, are thrashing about, attempting to find an opponent who actually gives a f**k about them.

Dunfermline and Arbroath fans are the only good c***s in this.

[Pull My Strings]

6 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

 

Actually, going by Elo Thistle were more likely than not to avoid last place.

ICT fans aren't greeting because they know that they've more chance of promotion with league reconstruction than if the season finishes as usual.

Ayr fans are taking the opportunity to bleat through stifled tears about how much they're totally over their ex.

Dundee fans are trying to deflect from their board's catastrophe by running around the forum claiming others are on the verge of tears.

Dundee United fans, having been denied a fitting celebration to a championship victory, are thrashing about, attempting to find an opponent who actually gives a f**k about them.

Dunfermline and Arbroath fans are the only good c***s in this.

Jesus wept.

[RandomGuy.]

8 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Actually, going by Elo Thistle were more likely than not to avoid last place.
 

[RossBFaeDundee]

57 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Partick fans seem a bit upset by all of this.

 

14 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Actually, going by Elo Thistle were more likely than not to avoid last place.

ICT fans aren't greeting because they know that they've more chance of promotion with league reconstruction than if the season finishes as usual.

Ayr fans are taking the opportunity to bleat through stifled tears about how much they're totally over their ex.

Dundee fans are trying to deflect from their board's catastrophe by running around the forum claiming others are on the verge of tears.

Dundee United fans, having been denied a fitting celebration to a championship victory, are thrashing about, attempting to find an opponent who actually gives a f**k about them.

Dunfermline and Arbroath fans are the only good c***s in this.

Don't know what you're on about.

[D'Jaffo]

Actually, going by Elo Thistle were more likely than not to avoid last place.

ICT fans aren't greeting because they know that they've more chance of promotion with league reconstruction than if the season finishes as usual.

Ayr fans are taking the opportunity to bleat through stifled tears about how much they're totally over their ex.

Dundee fans are trying to deflect from their board's catastrophe by running around the forum claiming others are on the verge of tears.

Dundee United fans, having been denied a fitting celebration to a championship victory, are thrashing about, attempting to find an opponent who actually gives a f**k about them.

Dunfermline and Arbroath fans are the only good c***s in this.

Stifled tears of laughter.