Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[johnnydun]

1 minute ago, AyrExile said:

It’s one thing being relegated unfairly and able to play on. If Hearts are put into cold storage that’s a completely different outcome. Legal action might just be the better option then 

They have been relegated fairly.

They will just have to go along with the set up for the league they are playing in, like the rest of us.

[Dee Bliss]

27 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

They have been relegated fairly.

They will just have to go along with the set up for the league they are playing in, like the rest of us.

I’m not so sure they have been relegated fairly tbh. Budge is having a mare with this league reconstruction however. Promoting teams is fair enough, relegating them with a chance of survival is bang out of order. 

[johnnydun]

2 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

I’m not so sure they have been relegated fairly tbh. Budge is having a mare with this league reconstruction however. Promoting teams is fair enough, relegating them with a chance of survival is bang out of order. 

As harsh as it might be, it's the written rules they signed up to. Like all clubs did.

[Dee Bliss]

12 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

As harsh as it might be, it's the written rules they signed up to. Like all clubs did.

I’m not sure they rules would include not playing a full season of games tho. Anything Hearts benefit from should be the same for Partick and Stranraer. 

[AyrExile]

46 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

They have been relegated fairly.

They will just have to go along with the set up for the league they are playing in, like the rest of us.

They are quite free to challenge the application and interpretation of the rules in a court if they wish. In light of the sudden end to the season I don’t think that is something Neil Doncaster would relish tbh

[johnnydun]

6 minutes ago, Yenitit said:

I’m not sure they rules would include not playing a full season of games tho. Anything Hearts benefit from should be the same for Partick and Stranraer. 

The SPFL definition of a season;

"Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League 
Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same 
Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close 
Season;"

The rules for relegation;

"C10 Subject to these Rules and except in relation to Season 2013/2014, the Clubs entitled 
to participate in the Championship in any Season shall be:

C10.3 the Club which finished in position 12 of the League at the end of the 
immediately preceding Season;"

[AUFC 1910]

An opportunity to win promotion through a playoff system is not the even close to being 'due' a promotion 'on merit' though. 

I agree, but you quoted ‘deny promotion’, which in fairness, is what has happened so far to the clubs finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th - as by finishing in these positions opens up the opportunity to gain promotion, which subsequently has been denied.

[Mexico]

Ann Budge is only trying to persist with this because her own team are absolutely shit. She should show some class and accept that, instead she’s openly showing disdain for smaller teams which now Hearts will deservedly play at the same level as because of her hopeless stewardship.

[flood]

Itappears likely that hearts self indulgant restructure will get defeated, then I am surprised that Partick are not pushing for a 12-12-10-10 setup . This would appear to offer promotion to teams that just missed out and not relegate teams (other than hearts, but hey ho)

This setup could be flexible to allow 22, 33, 38 (with split) or 44 games dependant on covid

[AUFC 1910]

There is such contrast between such a small number of clubs in terms of income and potentially what they can pay players in this country.

It makes you wonder what IS the best for Football in Scotland.

Is it fewer teams?

Is it bigger leagues?

We seem to be tied to the TV deals and the 4 old firm games that it really is strangling the rest of us.

Some argue that the old firm make Scottish football and are the attraction for the money.

My argument is that they are simply too big for the rest of us and I would happily see the back of them to another league or setup.

Whether that would diminish income to the leagues - i don’t really care.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a hatred for the old firm like many do, but the rest of the setup, especially in the top leagues, have become like junkies, living day to day from the smack handouts from the old firm dealers who entice it from the TV company suppliers.

It all stinks and I just can’t see any of it changing, which is even more saddening than the lack of football right now.

[rb123!]

I'd far rather we focused our attentions on working out how to get Scottish football going again. Reconstruction is not going to happen. Give it up.

Exactly, there still appears to be very little of a plan on how to safely resume closed doors games in September/October and how clubs are going to be financially compensated for having games with no fans.

[vikingTON]

5 hours ago, AUFC 1910 said:

I agree, but you quoted ‘deny promotion’, which in fairness, is what has happened so far to the clubs finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th - as by finishing in these positions opens up the opportunity to gain promotion, which subsequently has been denied.

No, the actual claim was that these clubs were being 'denied' a promotion that they were 'due on merit'. That's utter nonsense. The 2nd-4th placed clubs are not due promotion in any way whatsoever: two of them were guaranteed to lose out regardless and going by recent history all three would likely have fallen short. 

The only clubs due a promotion to a higher tier on merit this season were Dundee United, Raith and Cove respectively, all of which would still be playing at a higher tier under this restructure. Though whether that would count for much in Cove's case is debatable. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by vikingTON

[Dee Bliss]

4 hours ago, johnnydun said:

The SPFL definition of a season;

"Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League 
Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same 
Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close 
Season;"

The rules for relegation;

"C10 Subject to these Rules and except in relation to Season 2013/2014, the Clubs entitled 
to participate in the Championship in any Season shall be:

C10.3 the Club which finished in position 12 of the League at the end of the 
immediately preceding Season;"

I get where you are coming from regarding the rules. I’m meaning that this   season is pretty unprecedented and that a bit of leniency to the club’s suffering from it wouldn’t go amiss. I doubt the league rules were written with a pandemic in their thoughts. If it was Dundee in that position me and you would be displaying a bit of anger about it. Budge isn’t helping the situation with her comments and tho. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, AUFC 1910 said:

There is such contrast between such a small number of clubs in terms of income and potentially what they can pay players in this country.

It makes you wonder what IS the best for Football in Scotland.

Is it fewer teams?

Is it bigger leagues?

We seem to be tied to the TV deals and the 4 old firm games that it really is strangling the rest of us.

Some argue that the old firm make Scottish football and are the attraction for the money.

My argument is that they are simply too big for the rest of us and I would happily see the back of them to another league or setup.

Whether that would diminish income to the leagues - i don’t really care.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have a hatred for the old firm like many do, but the rest of the setup, especially in the top leagues, have become like junkies, living day to day from the smack handouts from the old firm dealers who entice it from the TV company suppliers.

It all stinks and I just can’t see any of it changing, which is even more saddening than the lack of football right now.

Being honest I've never really noticed much difference (if any), over the 30 odd years that I've watched Scottish football and Ayr in particular.

Most sides are pretty much in the same position that they've been throughout those 30 years with only the odd exception. I'd also say that the gulf between the leagues has also stayed pretty much the same, despite those in the top league receiving a far bigger slice of the collective pie.

Has 10 team leagues, 12 team leagues or 14 team leagues made much of a discernible difference on attendances or our clubs standings over the years ? again, I'm not so sure that it has.

All I'm saying is that change for change sake is generally a costly and also pretty pointless exercise unless there's a real purpose and plan behind it and Budge's certainly doesn't tick any of those boxes, that's for sure.

As for the old firm, we've got similar situations in most countries with 2 - 4 teams generally dominating the domestic competitions and sucking the life / talent from their domestic rivals, unfortunately that's just the way of it throughout football all around the world.

Let's be honest though, success and money isn't everything as guys like all of us can a test to, otherwise we wouldn't support the clubs that we do.

[Shadow Play]

9 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

.........As for the old firm, we've got similar situations in most countries with 2 - 4 teams generally dominating the domestic competitions and sucking the life / talent from their domestic rivals, unfortunately that's just the way of it throughout football all around the 

I don’t think there is any other ‘major’ league in Europe, if not the world, where only two clubs have won the top league over the past 35 years.  No matter what way anyone tries to dress if up that is an embarrassment for any league competition.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

I don’t think there is any other ‘major’ league in Europe, if not the world, where only two clubs have won the top league over the past 35 years.  No matter what way anyone tries to dress if up that is an embarrassment for any league competition.

In fairness, Barca or Real have won 25 of the last 30 la liga titles and that's a large country with some top sides.

[jagsfan57]

As harsh as it might be, it's the written rules they signed up to. Like all clubs did.

Not quite sure it is written in the rules. (At best it is a Dominic Cummings type rule).
It was the clubs that made the decisions.

[Shadow Play]

13 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

In fairness, Barca or Real have won 25 of the last 30 la liga titles and that's a large country with some top sides.

.......with 3 other separate clubs having won the league in that time.  One of the clubs was as recently as the ‘13-‘14 season.  Since ‘13-‘14 I don’t think we have even had a club, other than the Old Firm, with a shout of winning the league come Easter*.

If you think the size of the country is relevant Ireland has a population broadly similar to Scotland and they have had about a half dozen teams win their top flight in the last 35 years.

 That is the sad reality of Scottish football.

* Quite possibly change Easter to Christmas 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Shadow Play

[johnnydun]

16 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

Not quite sure it is written in the rules. (At best it is a Dominic Cummings type rule).
It was the clubs that made the decisions.

It is. See my previous post.

5 hours ago, johnnydun said:

The SPFL definition of a season;

"Season means the period of the year commencing on the date of the first League 
Match in a Season and ending on the date of the last League Match in the same 
Season or otherwise as determined by the Board and which excludes the Close 
Season;"

The rules for relegation;

"C10 Subject to these Rules and except in relation to Season 2013/2014, the Clubs entitled 
to participate in the Championship in any Season shall be:

C10.3 the Club which finished in position 12 of the League at the end of the 
immediately preceding Season;"

 

[RandomGuy.]

39 minutes ago, Shadow Play said:

I don’t think there is any other ‘major’ league in Europe, if not the world, where only two clubs have won the top league over the past 35 years.  No matter what way anyone tries to dress if up that is an embarrassment for any league competition.

Most obvious one I can think of is Greece, where Olympiacos and Panathanikos were the only winners over a 22 year period. Panathanikos then obviously collapsed financially.

The Croatian league formed in 1992, and in the preceding 28 years has 4 winners, but two of those only have 1 trophy, and Hadjuk/Dinamo finished in the top 3 both times.

19 years since any club outwith Turin or Milan won Serie A too.