Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[vikingTON]

7 hours ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

Away and have an “extremely specific” shite.

That'll be an 'I don't know' then. Gutted for you.

[true_rover]

The rules(at least the section that you posted twice) didn’t mention anything about a vote, though - definitely using an interpretation that suits your argument.

You're right, there was no need for a vote - the Board could have just done it following the rules. That they quite rightly put it to a vote of the club's first doesn't mean they then didn't follow them, it avoids the much larger shitshow that would have followed them doing so.

[johnnydun]

2 hours ago, jagsfan57 said:

The rules(at least the section that you posted twice) didn’t mention anything about a vote, though - definitely using an interpretation that suits your argument.

So? The board asked the advice of the clubs then took the decision.

It's not difficult.

[Rudolph Hucker]

10 hours ago, virginton said:

Erm no, try again: which clubs would be denied a promotion that they were 'due on merit' as a result of Hearts' proposal? Be extremely specific.

 

2 hours ago, virginton said:

That'll be an 'I don't know' then. Gutted for you.

Not at all, you little ray of seething sunshine.

First of all, we aren’t dealing in certainties here - that isn’t possible as the season wasn’t played through to its normal conclusion. You may have noticed this had you not been simply looking to point-score and snipe at people all the time.

Therefore the teams who have lost out are the teams who would’ve finished in second, third and fourth places in each league below the Premier who may have won their way to promotion by then successfully negotiating their way through the playoff system. Just like Hearts, Partick, Stranraer and even Brechin may have somehow avoided relegation had the season run its course. There’s also the one case that really has my sympathies and that’s the team that would’ve been promoted to League Two in place of Brechin or whoever else had finished bottom.

That “extremely specific” enough? If not, tough shit.  And I really hope yours was.  

[Bairnardo]

little ray of seething sunshine.
1

[vikingTON]

28 minutes ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

 

Not at all, you little ray of seething sunshine.

First of all, we aren’t dealing in certainties here - that isn’t possible as the season wasn’t played through to its normal conclusion. You may have noticed this had you not been simply looking to point-score and snipe at people all the time.

Therefore the teams who have lost out are the teams who would’ve finished in second, third and fourth places in each league below the Premier who may have won their way to promotion by then successfully negotiating their way through the playoff system. Just like Hearts, Partick, Stranraer and even Brechin may have somehow avoided relegation had the season run its course. There’s also the one case that really has my sympathies and that’s the team that would’ve been promoted to League Two in place of Brechin or whoever else had finished bottom.

That “extremely specific” enough? If not, tough shit.  And I really hope yours was.  

Well no: that's actually a giant mound of word salad. Your humiliating, final  admission that no team in fact would be denied a promotion that they were 'due on merit' from Hearts' proposal is noted though among all that bluster. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by vikingTON

[Rudolph Hucker]

Do you know, I actually think you believe that. 

Thankfully, anyone else reading it can see it for exactly what it is. Delusional. 

You hate to see it. 

Unlucky. 

Etc, etc. 

Photo of "z" list chef. 

(Edited to add) :

Gutted for you. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Rudolph Hucker

[vikingTON]

Well I'm sure that worked as a witty comeback in your head. And to think you even edited that mess as well.

Hard lines though.

 

[Pull My Strings]

What a pair of fannies.

[Rudolph Hucker]

Naah, only the one. Methadone Mick.

[Nowhereman]

Not at all, you little ray of seething sunshine.
First of all, we aren’t dealing in certainties here - that isn’t possible as the season wasn’t played through to its normal conclusion. You may have noticed this had you not been simply looking to point-score and snipe at people all the time.
Therefore the teams who have lost out are the teams who would’ve finished in second, third and fourth places in each league below the Premier who may have won their way to promotion by then successfully negotiating their way through the playoff system. Just like Hearts, Partick, Stranraer and even Brechin may have somehow avoided relegation had the season run its course. There’s also the one case that really has my sympathies and that’s the team that would’ve been promoted to League Two in place of Brechin or whoever else had finished bottom.
That “extremely specific” enough? If not, tough shit.  And I really hope yours was.   [emoji23]

I don’t want interfere in your fun with Viking ton but why do you have more sympathy with Kelty/ Brora than for East Fife, Airdrie, Edinburgh City etc. All of them would have had to win two play off games to gain promotion. What makes Kelty/ Brora a special case?

[Rudolph Hucker]

Fair question. I just think it's a tiny bit closer to a potential "quantum leap" for them than for those already amongst the 42. 

[Trogdor]

VT & Ruddy should get a room! 

[Fifes Elite Force]

Looks like its heading for a no vote for reconstruction. So hearts will go for legal action. I'm not sure it has legs as it stands just now though but time will tell.

 

However something else has got me thinking in the possible scenario some clubs in the championship want to play games and some don't. We will use hearts as an example and the other clubs vote to mothball the league. If this is taken to court  I think court would decide hearts had been treated unfairly as a business. By not allowing them to trade the spfl would be in breach of competition rules as an organisation. By allowing some member clubs to trade (the premiership) but not others if they wanted would that not be in breach of the law? It would be the same for any business in the same situation. Allowing industry peers to decide if you can trade or not wont be tolerated by the courts. On the back of that I would say the court would force the spfl to come to a resolution acceptable to the court which would mean allowing clubs that want to play to play. I think it would also blow the voting structure of the spfl out the water as not fit for purpose.

 

Maybe someone with more legal knowledge than me can explain if this could happen?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Fifes Elite Force

[Thereisalight..]

I wouldn’t be adverse to a 16 team top flight. Whilst I feel some level of sympathy for Hearts, Partick and Stranraer, it’s clear Budge wouldn’t give a fck about reconstruction if they hadn’t been “relegated” 

[Thereisalight..]

As for football perhaps starting back here in Aug. I think at 80% of Scottish grounds social distancing could be managed to allow crowds in. I’d rather have a reduced crowd at games than no crowd at all 

[diegomarahenry]

Budge's plans are 100% to only benefit Hearts and that is why they will fail.

She would have had to come up with a solution that increased the member clubs to fulfil the pyramid requirement. Probably without a play-off and had no relegation at all to prevent her club from being relegated

Both have solutions but neither would get the backing required.

There were two options to the ending of the season, Null and void or call the leagues on sporting merit. I would argue that calling the league, paying out prize money on points per game and awarding titles, but freezing promotion and relegation this season would have been fairer than what we have now. I would say that a relegation without fulfilling the season is far more harmful than not being promoted but being financially compensated for it. To Promote three teams, relegate three teams but not have teams from the pyramid promoted is a sham.

Dundee United were 100% winning the league and would be the only team with a legitimate complaint had it been done this way rather than the dozen or so teams impacted currently. 

But the teams are the SPFL and voted for this.

[Rudolph Hucker]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

VT & Ruddy should get a room! 

I suppose it’s statistically possible that someday, somewhere, somebody may pop his cherry for him.

Won’t be me.

[johnnydun]

1 hour ago, Fifes Elite Force said:

Looks like its heading for a no vote for reconstruction. So hearts will go for legal action. I'm not sure it has legs as it stands just now though but time will tell.

 

However something else has got me thinking in the possible scenario some clubs in the championship want to play games and some don't. We will use hearts as an example and the other clubs vote to mothball the league. If this is taken to court  I think court would decide hearts had been treated unfairly as a business. By not allowing them to trade the spfl would be in breach of competition rules as an organisation. By allowing some member clubs to trade (the premiership) but not others if they wanted would that not be in breach of the law? It would be the same for any business in the same situation. Allowing industry peers to decide if you can trade or not wont be tolerated by the courts. On the back of that I would say the court would force the spfl to come to a resolution acceptable to the court which would mean allowing clubs that want to play to play. I think it would also blow the voting structure of the spfl out the water as not fit for purpose.

 

Maybe someone with more legal knowledge than me can explain if this could happen?

It would not just be Hearts wanting to play games behind closed doors, Dundee have also said they want to start up, behind closed doors or not. You will probably find we won't be the only teams below the Premier wanting this.

I would imagine that once they find out the numbers, if 10 or more wish to play then it would be the 10 top placed teams throughout the league will make up the Championship teams for next season, as others would not be registering to play.

If it is less than 10, then imo, it would be a smaller Leauge.

[jagsfan57]

You're right, there was no need for a vote - the Board could have just done it following the rules. That they quite rightly put it to a vote of the club's first doesn't mean they then didn't follow them, it avoids the much larger shitshow that would have followed them doing so.

This is where we start getting into grey areas - the rules don’t mention asking the clubs to vote, whether you think it is the right thing to do or not.