DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 ‘What’s not to like’ is the idea of expanding the top flight for one season alone just to placate a handful of clubs whose teams were utter shite and deserved to go down anyway. Have to agree with this - any one season solution just to save Hearts arse is not acceptable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clashcityrocker Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Would prefer to finish the season with all remaining games played in late July or August ( behind closed doors if needs must ) and the new season can get delayed to allow all Scottish leagues to complete their games ( including the play offs ). Also in favour of league reconstruction with a 16 team Premier League - but there should still be promotion and relegation this season. There would need to also be a 3 week period for training before the league restarts to get the players up to speed with fitness. Contracts can be extended until the end of the season. Clubs will make up their excuses for things - but everything is possible with proper planning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo*1 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I thought this proposal was discussed in depth with all the club chairmen? Evidently yet another rush job from the SPFL: Falkirk chairman believes clubs will reject move to end season early - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52228614 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Thinking money needs paid back by furloughed employees, is surely more stupid than that. That's not what I said. I said the companies using the scheme will have to pay it back eventually. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: That's not what I said. I said the companies using the scheme will have to pay it back eventually. FFS, no they don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: That's not what I said. I said the companies using the scheme will have to pay it back eventually. I presume you mean that the next budget will be full of tax increases. Why not just say that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, clashcityrocker said: Would prefer to finish the season with all remaining games played in late July or August ( behind closed doors if needs must ) and the new season can get delayed to allow all Scottish leagues to complete their games ( including the play offs ). Also in favour of league reconstruction with a 16 team Premier League - but there should still be promotion and relegation this season. There would need to also be a 3 week period for training before the league restarts to get the players up to speed with fitness. Contracts can be extended until the end of the season. Clubs will make up their excuses for things - but everything is possible with proper planning. But players can't be forced to sign them. Clubs not being to afford to sign a squad isn't an excuse; it's a reality. 'Proper planning' doesn't magically give teams the income streams they don't have and will need to be able to assemble and pay a squad in August. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 No you can't I'm afraid, as I don't think that your argument makes sense. Under my plan, Dundee and Ayr (and all other playoff contenders across all leagues) lose their chance at promotion, and this is upsetting to you as you feel you could go up were the fixtures to be concluded. Under Nul and void, Dundee and Ayr (and all other playoff contenders across all the leagues) lose their chance at promotion and this would also be upsetting to you as you feel you could go up were the fixtures to be concluded. It woukd also upset teams like Celtic, United and Cove who have been top of their respective leagues since day 1, and are more than 3 quarters of the way through the season. In addition, the signigicant legal ramifications of Nul and Void would upset alot of people. Self interest will always be a factor in people's preferences for how the season should conclude, and like most, I would love to see this season played out, just not to the detriment of next season, or to public safety. FWIW, If Dundee were 14 points ahead at this stage with the goal difference we have, I would have no hesitation in conceding that they deserve to go up. ETA. Were United to be currently sitting in a playoff spot, I would happily bin them, given our experience over the past 3 playoff campaigns.I, like a lot of Dundee fans, have no issue awarding United the league - the problem is that United and Celtic are the only teams where it is pretty clear that their position is sure. Can anyone seriously say that Hearts or Thistle would definitely gone down?Or that ICT should be the team that goes up if there I'd a 14 team league next season?Or that Falkirk wouldn't have overtaken Raith?There's no easy solution to this that doesn't piss off several clubs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ad Lib said: I mean it's really simple why bother: it prevents unfairness to clubs who shouldn't be relegated on the basis of part of a season, it provides the opportunity for good Premier League teams to absolutely shag rotten a bigger sack of upcoming Championship dross. It gives them more home games for one season so more gate revenue too. It introduces more relegation spots but crucially also, uh, *more shit teams*. I would venture that it is easier to finish 10th in a league of 14 than it is to finish 10th in a league of 12, and even more so because of the split. As for parachute payments, the point is simple: you don't have them for those finishing 13th and 14th, only for those finishing 12th. Those in 13th and 14th should be treated financially as though they finished 1st or 2nd in the Championship in a normal season. I'm sure at board level clubs are thinking about fairness first... If the season can't be completed I don't think there is a fair solution really - there would be teams arguing unfairness in one way or another. I still can't see what is in it for a Premiership teams to reconstruct on that model. You keep saying more shit teams, but in general it's rare for teams, even shite ones and I've seen a few, to be significantly detached in the Premiership. If I was on the board of a bottom 6 club, I'd prefer the status quo and take my chances rather than inviting up Dundee and Inverness who you'd fancy to be competitive, keeping Hearts who probably wouldn't be as shite and having a bigger relegation zone especially with your notion of no-parachute payments for 13th and 14th. Don't get me wrong, turn the clock back 3 years and Partick and St Mirren would be saying the opposite... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clashcityrocker Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: But players can't be forced to sign them. Clubs not being to afford to sign a squad isn't an excuse; it's a reality. 'Proper planning' doesn't magically give teams the income streams they don't have and will need to be able to assemble and pay a squad in August. Everything is possible - players can have their contracts extended until the end of the season with no transfers allowed until the season is complete. The £8 million sponsorship money the SPFL can be distributed now - if the SPFL start talks to release the funding now, rather than the end of the season. Proper planning was a reference to the SPFL to help the smaller clubs, provide them with the funding now and stop trying to bully them into rushing a decision. The suggestion that the SPFL can't release the £8 million funds now is nonsense - does anyone really believe the sponsors would stand in the way of this ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
third lanark Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Have any clubs struggled to pay their players while this crisis has went on? I know there was a rumour hearts and inverness were going to ask their players to take cuts as far as I know it was a rumour and has never came to anything 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobe2010 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, clashcityrocker said: Everything is possible - players can have their contracts extended until the end of the season with no transfers allowed until the season is complete. The £8 million sponsorship money the SPFL can be distributed now - if the SPFL start talks to release the funding now, rather than the end of the season. Proper planning was a reference to the SPFL to help the smaller clubs, provide them with the funding now and stop trying to bully them into rushing a decision. The suggestion that the SPFL can't release the £8 million funds now is nonsense - does anyone really believe the sponsors would stand in the way of this ? How do you extend the contracts of players who dont want to stay at their clubs beyond their current contracts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) Who exactly is doing the ‘bullying’ of smaller clubs here? The SPFL is run by its member clubs: if a significant number of them weren’t interested in concluding the season right now then there wouldn’t be a proposal on the table. The only people in Scottish football who cite ‘bullying’ and want to split the distribution of money from calling the league are those who simply don’t like the outcome of calling the leagues and want to muddy the waters accordingly. Edited April 9, 2020 by vikingTON 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, clashcityrocker said: Everything is possible - players can have their contracts extended until the end of the season with no transfers allowed until the season is complete. You cannot force players to extend their contracts with Clubs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 14 hours ago, eez-eh said: This might be the most ridiculous and petty point I’ve seen raised in this topic yet. Thank you, that is some score on this website but still an important one if there is no-one working for the clubs who is going to do any of the admin. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueSue Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 2 hours ago, MacArab said: Not that it matters, but I think that calling it all now, and declaring Celtic Champions, and looking at reconstruction is the least damaging way to end this utter clusterfuck now, and protect the integrity of next season. The only team out of 44 that will be unhappy with this would be The New Rangers, and to be fair, the ensuing Sevconian meltdown would give us all a laugh during these tragic times. Apologies if I am repeating stuff other have said already, however... United and Caley up (to be fair, Caley have been consistently second pretty much all season) Raith and Falkirk up (saves any tears and snotters out of Grangemouth) Cove and EC up. Kelty and Brora introduced to league 2 (Welcome) Anybody further down the list in terms of current or potentials playoff positions (including Dundee sadly) need to realise that we are in uncharted waters and it is highly unlikely that they were going up anyway, especially if we can’t play any more games for the next 3 months. Hearts and Partick Thistle are saved, Stranraer and Brechin (who looked doomed) are also saved. Premiership Next Season 3 go down automatically, and 1 play off, whilst in the Championship is as is, with 1 up and playoffs as normal, meaning that. We then have 12 team leagues for the Premiership and Championship the follwoing season, and can introduce the split to the Championship as well for 2021/22. What’s not to like? Some kind of reconstruction of the leagues must be part of the vote. Then all clubs no exactly what is going to happen. Even put in a caveat that no team will be relegated and at least the top two from each league as it stands will be promoted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikethedee Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: But players can't be forced to sign them. Clubs not being to afford to sign a squad isn't an excuse; it's a reality. 'Proper planning' doesn't magically give teams the income streams they don't have and will need to be able to assemble and pay a squad in August. 17 minutes ago, Kobe2010 said: How do you extend the contracts of players who dont want to stay at their clubs beyond their current contracts. 15 minutes ago, Ad Lib said: You cannot force players to extend their contracts with Clubs. Please see my (excellent!!) post on page 59 which covers all this and proves that playing this season to a conclusion, and having a potentially shorter 2020/21 season is the fairest way forward... Edited April 9, 2020 by Spikethedee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, clashcityrocker said: Everything is possible - players can have their contracts extended until the end of the season with no transfers allowed until the season is complete. The £8 million sponsorship money the SPFL can be distributed now - if the SPFL start talks to release the funding now, rather than the end of the season. Proper planning was a reference to the SPFL to help the smaller clubs, provide them with the funding now and stop trying to bully them into rushing a decision. The suggestion that the SPFL can't release the £8 million funds now is nonsense - does anyone really believe the sponsors would stand in the way of this ? The money being released isn't the issue. You've totally misunderstood. The clubs will have budgeted for that money for this season, meaning up to when it would have normally ended. What funds will they be using to sign players in August? Or to pay the ones still under contract? If clubs are playing again then they have to start paying everyone again in full. Almost all income streams will not be there. You might suggest season ticket sales, but many fans won't buy a ticket not knowing when the new season will begin, what format it will take, what league they'll be in etc. Sponsors will be reluctant as well for the same reasons. How are clubs going to afford this all? Some will manage but many will not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Spikethedee said: Please see my (excellent!!) post on page 59 which covers all this and proves that playing this season to a conclusion, and having a potentially shorter 2020/21 season is the fairest way forward... And how do clubs pay for it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayr145 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I don't get all this Dundee shit, play the league out cause we're going up. You're pish and if the league played out you'd be outside the playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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