The SPFL vote vote

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Strange for Partick to give us considering [mention=37080]JTS98[/mention] told me their QC had a concrete argument to take the SPFL to court.

So Thistle's legal advice was shite then?

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Ah, the blue pound.

Lovely.

That's what it cost to buy them.

[Diamonds are Forever]

51 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

I don't think there is an appetite for reconstruction. At least not for the top division.

I don't think there is an opportunity to squeeze more games in to expand the league with the overall product losing value (4X OF games, each club getting 3 home OF games).

I think the current league set up does a fantastic job of creating interest and meaningful games while maintaining enough integrity. The split occurs after 87% of the season complete.  Some proposals have splits with less than 2/3rds of the season finished.  And could leave some clubs without a meaningful fixture for 5 months.

 

Completely agree with this. I know this season reconstruction may have a different purpose, but in general I've never understood what people are wanting from this league (and the lower leagues) that it doesn't already provide.

With a Title race,  European race, Top 6 fight and a relegation fight it is very rare for a club not to have anything to play for with more than a few games to go. This is particularly important in our league because of the dominance of the Old Firm. No other team is going to win the league so there has to be a structure where other teams always have something to play for.

The downside always mentioned is playing teams 3/4 times a season which you wouldn't get in a bigger league. This can be a bit monotonous. However I refuse to believe that in the long term, say Hibs, would rather give up their 2nd home game against Hearts, Aberdeen or Dundee Utd with large atmospheric away supports where there is a bit of needle, and replace it with home matches with Ayr, Arbroath and ICT. I don't get how increasing the size of the 'mid-table' with a 16 team league adds anything.

If you look across the leagues just now (and imagine that the season would be completed) how many teams have nothing left to play for? Maybe 4 out of 42. Out of the 30 lower league teams over half would still think they had a shot at promotion. Again, I'm not sure what more people are looking for in a league structure. I think we need to be really careful with this, we have clubs like Dundee now demanding change when 2 months ago they weren't saying a thing. Our league structure did not contribute to this situation therefore I am unclear why permanent reconstruction now appears to be part of the solution.

I would not be totally opposed to a one season fix if a workable one can be found. But it should then revert back to what we currently have unless someone can construct a set up that provides things the current one does not - I have yet to see one.

[The DA]

1 hour ago, Ric said:

"no fair minded person"

They make it a bit too easy, don't they?

'Fair-minded' should be hyphenated.

[Billy Jean King]

No doubt someone will be along soon to tell us that she will have been told that's her bargaining chip by Celtic.

Has Budge shot her bolt already with her 'temporary reconstruction' comment ?

[HibsFan]

42 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

Completely agree with this. I know this season reconstruction may have a different purpose, but in general I've never understood what people are wanting from this league (and the lower leagues) that it doesn't already provide.

With a Title race,  European race, Top 6 fight and a relegation fight it is very rare for a club not to have anything to play for with more than a few games to go. This is particularly important in our league because of the dominance of the Old Firm. No other team is going to win the league so there has to be a structure where other teams always have something to play for.

The downside always mentioned is playing teams 3/4 times a season which you wouldn't get in a bigger league. This can be a bit monotonous. However I refuse to believe that in the long term, say Hibs, would rather give up their 2nd home game against Hearts, Aberdeen or Dundee Utd with large atmospheric away supports where there is a bit of needle, and replace it with home matches with Ayr, Arbroath and ICT. I don't get how increasing the size of the 'mid-table' with a 16 team league adds anything.

If you look across the leagues just now (and imagine that the season would be completed) how many teams have nothing left to play for? Maybe 4 out of 42. Out of the 30 lower league teams over half would still think they had a shot at promotion. Again, I'm not sure what more people are looking for in a league structure. I think we need to be really careful with this, we have clubs like Dundee now demanding change when 2 months ago they weren't saying a thing. Our league structure did not contribute to this situation therefore I am unclear why permanent reconstruction now appears to be part of the solution.

I would not be totally opposed to a one season fix if a workable one can be found. But it should then revert back to what we currently have unless someone can construct a set up that provides things the current one does not - I have yet to see one.

You make some good points here, but just regarding the bit in bold, I would happily trade away the third and fourth games against Hearts and Aberdeen in a season. By the time they come around, especially if we've also drawn them in a cup, I'm completely sick of the sight of them.

Yes, barely ever fucking beating them has a part to play in that, but the four (up to possibly six) games you play against sides around you does frustrate me a lot. I know I'm probably in a minority on this one though.

[Mr Heliums]

2 hours ago, Jacksgranda said:

I enjoyed it but I was young and going to football was my hobby. Older fans certainly were a bit more choosy, going by the swing in attendance.

I don't think they were naturally more choosy. In the old days, football was cheaper, but there was also less tribalism and attendances would naturally fluctuate according to the attractiveness of the fixture, or even the weather. Attendance stability now is down to the growth of season ticket sales*.

(* This despite how cheap season tickets were back then compared to now. For example, in 1912, the best season ticket at Saints cost the equivalent of £60 in today's money (with ground season tickets at £36). In 1930, in the top league, it was the equivalent of £130 for a main stand tip-up seat ( with ground seasons £48 in today's money.)

Edited April 16, 2020 by Mr Heliums

[charger29]

The Athletic understands that during Wednesday’s SPFL board meeting it was confirmed that Dundee’s vote was in two SPFL email inboxes at circa 4:48pm on Friday — one belonging to SPFL company secretary Iain Blair and the other belonging to Michele Shields, PA to the SPFL chairman and chief executive — but was received in the form of a junk file. The SPFL again declined to comment.

https://theathletic.co.uk/1750268/2020/04/16/scottish-football-chiefs-spfl-rangers-dundee-premiership/

[Lofarl]

Can you just imagine Hearts fans on here next season if they are spared relegation.  Do you want a barrage of smug Gregg Wallace faces when they get a result against you?  With comments like "easy shree points up at Killie for the championship dodgers" "Guid draw for the establishment side".  Do you want that?  Course not.  As the late John Holmes would say:

 

f**k em!

[CambieBud]

Is traynor still there?

I believe it is now an ultra unionist ex DUP councillor. Presumably some fair minded person

[Nutz_the_Squirrel]

36 team top flight.  Play each other once.  3 points for a win, none for anything else.  5 ‘joker’ cards where you can gamble on your team winning to play for 10 points in that match.  First 5 matches no offsides.  Last 5 matches no red cards.

It’s really not difficult. 

[vikingTON]

23 hours ago, The Reverend said:

Forgive me if you're simply trolling, but how can it possibly be considered fair to relegate clubs when the whole season hasn't been played?

Football and professional sport more broadly isn't meant to be 'fair'. A blatant penalty that isn't awarded to your team isn't fair; a handball goal that a referee doesn't spot which relegates you is not 'fair', we don't rerun the season for the sake of a bunch of crybabies who can't tolerate this crushing and ever-present injustice though.

As the rest of the season clearly cannot be completed it must be concluded based on the objective facts that we have available, which show that they were the worst team in their league and so should be relegated, In the exact same way that Dundee United and Cove should be promoted as the best teams in their league based on the objective evidence available. The fact that the coronavirus pandemic stopped play is just tough and is not even much of an injustice at all, given that the bottom sides in all four divisions have been consistently and utterly shite all season long.

Edited April 16, 2020 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

On 15/04/2020 at 21:37, virginton said:

The next steps are Partick getting back into their stupid little box labelled for the seaside league, Rangers to have another meltdown and for Budge to put up some half-baked reconstruction scheme that fails to win remotely enough support to pass, at which point Hearts are sent doon as well. 

^^^ yet more award-winning, fact-based analysis, vindicated within 24 hours

 

 

[Sinner-to-Saint]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

Football and professional sport more broadly isn't meant to be 'fair'. A blatant penalty that isn't awarded to your team isn't fair; a handball goal that a referee doesn't spot which relegates you is not 'fair', we don't rerun the season for the sake of a bunch of crybabies who can't tolerate this crushing injustice though.

As the rest of the season clearly cannot be completed it must be concluded based on the objective facts that we have available, which show that they were objectively the worst team in their league and so should be relegated, In the exact same way that Dundee United and Cove should be promoted as the best teams in their league based on the objective evidence available. The fact that the coronavirus pandemic stopped play is just tough and is not even much of an injustice at all, given that the bottom sides in all four divisions have been consistently and utterly shite all season long.

Well argued, but I still don't agree with you.

Football is supposed to be fair, that's why we have a referee. However human beings are not perfect and referees are not infallible. But every effort is made to make things as fair as possible. In this case reconstruction is a simple way of preventing an injustice, and therefore it should be implemented.

[vikingTON]

Just now, The Reverend said:

Well argued, but I still don't agree with you.

Football is supposed to be fair, that's why we have a referee. However human beings are not perfect and referees are not infallible. But every effort is made to make things as fair as possible. In this case reconstruction is a simple way of preventing an injustice, and therefore it should be implemented.

Pish, because if we were making things 'as fair as possible' then the respective authorities would be obliged to make good the costly f**k ups inflicted by referees. That's not how it works for decisions made on the field and the same principle applies to decisions taken off of it as well. Not least given that there isn't the slightest injustice about the worst team in any given division being flushed out of it at the season's end on an entirely objective basis.

[Raidernation]

I figured it out.

 

44 teams (if they all survive) including the HL and LL champs.

 

Complete restructure:

 

16, 14, 14:

Names: 1st division, 2nd division, 3rd division.

1st; 3 down 3 up

Others 2 down 2 up

 

Allocate teams to the ENTIRELY NEW Scottish leagues alphabetically.

It’ll take a few years to settle down but I think it’ll work.

 

 

ETA 1st will be Aberdeen to Dundee Utd

2nd Dunfermline to Montrose

3rd Morton to Stranraer.

 

Sounds ok to me.

[Ric]

Has anyone mentioned a 2 / 14 / 14 / 14 league?

It has many benefits.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

Has anyone mentioned a 2 / 14 / 14 / 14 league?

It has many benefits.

14/14/14.                             2

Far better

[Ric]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

14/14/14.                             2

Far better

Ah, now, I feel you have taken something good and made it beautiful!

[Coventry Saint]

A temporary restructuring would be an absolutely farcical, laughing stock-in-waiting decision.

Its only saving grace would be the delicious, glorious prospect of Hearts still being shite and going down when the league shrinks again.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Coventry Saint