League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Arch Stanton]

1 hour ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

2 hours ago, DumbartonBud said:

Me too, there was a statue recently erected to mark the case, hopefully Mrs Donoghue didn’t have a past life as a slave trader. 
 
In fact I passed the statue on the 11th March 2020 on the way to watch the final game of the 2019/20 season.  

Is there a statue now? Wow, I didn't know that. Will pay a visit if/when I find myself in Paisley next season

Its on the corner of Wellmeadow St and Lady Lane.

[MegaRichJambos]

11 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Its on the corner of Wellmeadow St and Lady Lane.

Is that what the protesters did to the statue?

[Arch Stanton]

Just now, MegaRichJambos said:

Is that what the protesters did to the statue?

It's always been a bit shit.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, JTS98 said:

*sigh*

UEFA have to put out dates for all of their competitions. They have to show that they've done all they can to put them on. Not doing so would be very expensive. All of those competitions are subject to sponsorship and media contracts. Even the minor ones.

I'm sure they hope that the schedule works out. I don't doubt that for a second. But, as my point was hours ago, it is still a very big 'if' as to whether any of this happens. Announcing the dates does not mean it will happen.

You're an optimistic man if you think sports people will be cleared for regular travel all season to get this done. An announced fixture list has no basis in reality until it takes place.

Yet, in your desperation to quibble over something, you missed the wording of my post and have continued to try to argue about something I did not say. Scotland has not sent any clubs to compete in 20/21 European competitions. Nobody has. And nobody knows whether we will or not.

You've wasted a lot of typing on something that I was accurate about in the post you quoted ages ago.

This is essentially just arguing that red is blue at this point. Air travel has not generally been banned, people are still flying across the world. Several Scottish Premiership players had to fly back to Scotland to resume training just this week. Some countries have restrictions on entry, but that's why many of the games have been scheduled specifically in locations where these do not apply.

The phrase "an announced fixture list has no basis in reality until it takes place" and various other aspects of your post are essentially just delving into philosophy. Of course nothing can be guaranteed to happen until it happens. The fixture lists for the English Premier League, Serie A or the Bundesliga presumably have no basis in reality either according to that argument, but there is still a reasonable expectation that when I stick on my TV tonight, tomorrow and Sunday I'll be watching the games. In fact, presumably TV schedules or my work meetings for next week have no basis in reality either since there's always the chance they'll change.

I didn't miss the wording of your post, I chose to focus on the actual intention of it, namely the ludicrous idea that because the UEFA competitions can't be 100% guaranteed to go ahead as scheduled and because we therefore can't 100% guarantee that all four of our representatives will definitely take part, we should just ignore their rules and not worry about the very clear cut-off dates which they have set for national associations. It would be like me being set a deadline to finish a piece of work and then missing it and telling my boss that I wasn't sure if the meeting was going to happen so I didn't bother.

Edited June 19, 2020 by craigkillie

[Sergeant Wilson]

16 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Its on the corner of Wellmeadow St and Lady Lane.

I'm going to have nightmares.

[Golden Gordon]

20 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

Its on the corner of Wellmeadow St and Lady Lane.

I'm going to have Liquorice Allsorts. 

[wastecoatwilly]

3 hours ago, Bazil85 said:

I just don't see a single shred of evidence that a team of 18-21 years old playing at L2 level in Scotland are going to produce several players vastly superior to what Celtic currently have. That's the only way there would be a benefit to the Scottish national team. Your point on them being different players isn't really true. If these players do become the required quality (or at least profitable sales), they are/ will be contracted to Celtic or Rangers and they get the benefit. It's not like they're buying them from a L2 team for their value & that progresses a Scottish team. It also would make no difference to me if it was St Mirren. I am fundamentally against turning lower leagues into development exercises to progress bigger teams (which is all this is)

The trickle down effect is a red herring and I have shown why. Let's take three players that were released by St Mirren and went onto be very important to us, both as players and in two instances, financially. Jack Baird, Lewis Morgan & Kenny McLean. If colts had existed, by your own argument there is every chance these players could have developed quicker. If that's the case, would they all still have been released and made their way to St Mirren? I think the chances are overwhelmingly no. The second point here is the colts will still need a team to field. If it was thought these players were slightly below the required level, the colts is almost a last chance saloon type of thing. Again it adds fuel to we might not of got these players. That will be reflected in many teams the country over.

The trickle down effect only benefits Celtic & Rangers because it would likely create more young players not quite good enough for them but that could be sold for value, someone starring at L2 isn't automatically going to play for a Celtic but could be worth a five or six figure bid from a lower end SP team or lower English leagues (players that may have previously been free?). This hampers other clubs that unfortunately do need to look at released Celtic & Rangers players because of the financial strength of these two teams. Trickle down is ABSOLUTELY NOT a benefit for any other team. I get the argument that this might have made them slightly better players but it's hardly going to have an impact on the SP overall which no one can deny is at a shockingly low level of quality & obviously that wont help Scotland's national team. 

Regarding Europe, there is an argument for run before you can walk but from where Scottish football has been, the players we've developed and the level of teams we've had in the past, 14th is absolutely not good enough. That means there are 13 better leagues with 1,000s of better players in them representing multiple countries. We need Scottish players generally to be wanted & playing for clubs the level of the top five leagues, like the majority of the top 20 teams in Europe. (There is no chance we are a top 20 team in Europe right now, no idea where you're getting that from. Although we should be). We are not going to get regularly to international tournaments with around 75% of our team playing in the 14th best league in Europe. 

Self-interest is killing the game and it comes from the ridiculous 11-1 voting structure that has suffocated our game for decades. When this is all said and done it should be put down to a 60% majority for almost all the high level decisions (clubs keeping their own gate money can stay higher). The vote this week does show there isn't even close to that appetite for Colts though which is good, it is the single biggest self-interest proposal put forward in recent Scottish football history.

Like I say, glad it's done and hopefully it never returns.  

 

 

The only way you can get evidence is to put it into practice,we can look at the pro and cons all day long, we can also look at the stats from other countries why it works in one country and doesn't work in another.
The point I was making about not being Celtic players is Celtic release players before they make the first team and even before we can get them to sign a professional contract (Liam Morrison to Bayern) , Celtic can't control the conveyor belt of players they can only sign a limited amount. Lindsay to Ross county,McCart to inverness,Thomson to Dunfermline.

The trickle down effect is already in place with the players I've posted above, the ones you posted do you really think Celtic didn't know about these players at an earlier stage in their careers,Celtic will know about every player in the system in Scotland from at least the age of 13 and will try to sign them when they reach 16 again Celtic will be limited to the amount they can sign, it's not about stockpiling  it's about getting the best they can get, giving them a decent wage and a decent education through the coaches.

Celtic also take advantage of the trickle down effect from the position they find themselves in, the club is only a cog in the big machine because of the massive jump players need to make from reserves to first team Celtic sign players from Man city's U21 Frimpong, Southampton U21 Jonathan Afolabi Luca Connell from Bolton's U18's and Lee O'connor from Man Utd U21's in the hope the jump to the first team isn't as big plus putting them out on loan Afolabi to Dunfermline, O'Connor to Partick Welsh to Morton Aitchison to Forest Green.
To say clubs don't benefit from this is ABSOLUTE MINCE.

In terms of Europe I use the coefficient table as a indication of where the league is across Europe it's not a true refection but it's the only one you can use.

 

UEFA Country Ranking 2020 

Most Scotland squads of 25 players have less than 12 players playing in Scotland so your 75% is way off the mark. 

 

[Guest JTS98]

8 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I didn't miss the wording of your post, I chose to focus on the actual intention of it, namely the ludicrous idea that because the UEFA competitions can't be 100% guaranteed to go ahead as scheduled and because we therefore can't 100% guarantee that all four of our representatives will definitely take part, we should just ignore their rules and not worry about the very clear cut-off dates which they have set for national associations.

What on earth are you basing this on?

Bizarre stuff. It just seems to me like you've dived into a silly point having mis-read a post and now you're going to continue banging on about it.

You're wrong about the content of my post. You're wrong about the intention of my post. I think you're probably wrong about the context of my post.

Taking all that into account, your view on it is not something I'll be bothering with any further.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Aberdonians.

Nah - they're too tight to do that.

[Frank Grimes]

Thistle fans 

 

[The DA]

Game on.  https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/6494/JOINT-STATEMENT-FROM-DUNDEE-UNITED-FOOTBALL-CLUB-RAITH-ROVERS-FOOTBALL-CLUB-AND-COVE-RANGERS-FOOTBALL-CLUB.html

Quote

On Wednesday Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers were served with a petition lodged in the Court of Session by fellow SPFL member clubs, Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle, which, if successful, could prevent our clubs’ promotions, and potentially have catastrophic financial implications for every SPFL member club as well.  

Whilst we are extremely unhappy that we have been drawn into this legal action, we can confirm that we immediately instructed external lawyers to act on our behalf and to protect our clubs’ interests. Since the SPFL resolution was passed by 81% of member clubs on 15th April 2020, which confirmed us all as title winners who were to be promoted, we have undertaken extensive and costly preparations for a new season in new leagues, including obtaining major financial commitments from our supporters, business partners and stakeholders. Our removal from those leagues would be ruinous on and off the field.

We have each had a highly successful season, brought to a premature end by something bigger than our clubs and bigger than our sport.  Our status as champions of our respective leagues is not being contested, and nor should the promotion which has always, and should always, come with it.

The legal action that has been raised by Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle not only threatens the financial stability of the SPFL, but also its individual member clubs.

For all of these reasons, we must and will robustly defend our position.

As legal proceedings are now underway, we intend to make no further comment on the matter at this time.

Back To News

 

[Lex]

So it’s Dundee Utd, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers v Hearts, Patrick Thistle and Stranraer.

Only one way to settle this...



In all seriousness why don’t we just organise a 33 on 33 match with 11 from each side. With massive goals and multi ball. Winner takes all.

I’d fancy the United/Raith/Cove triumvirate. They certainly are the form teams.

[Alan Stubbs]

Where my restriction of trade gang at.

Since the SPFL resolution was passed by 81% of member clubs on 15th April 2020, which confirmed us all as title winners who were to be promoted, we have undertaken extensive and costly preparations for a new season in new leagues, including obtaining major financial commitments from our supporters, business partners and stakeholders. Our removal from those leagues would be ruinous on and off the field.

 

[Guest Flash]

16 minutes ago, The DA said:

Game on.  https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/6494/JOINT-STATEMENT-FROM-DUNDEE-UNITED-FOOTBALL-CLUB-RAITH-ROVERS-FOOTBALL-CLUB-AND-COVE-RANGERS-FOOTBALL-CLUB.html

 

Does this make it more likely that the SFA rules regarding disputes between members apply?

[AlbionMan]

3 hours ago, Pet Jeden said:

We are a week or two behind England (south) and slightly ahead of parts of the north. Could have been training. SFA could have given all teams/players dispensation to allow registrations to run on a bit. Isn't this what UEFA are doing this to allow their 19-20 competitions to finish? Everything was guided by SKY-August  and Celtic's CL start.

You forgot the lack of cash in Scottish football needed to make it happen while following Scottish government protocols.

[johnnydun]

Although the banter would be overwhelming, it would be completely wrong (can't believe I am saying this) to take the DAB's promotion away from them now.

A further reason for me to find Hearts a horrible club, just look at what they have made me have, sympathy towards the Arabs! Utter c***s!

[MegaRichJambos]

If only we finished the season eh.

Thank goodness Celtic got the title though, that's the main thing.

[The DA]

1 minute ago, Flash said:

Does this make it more likely that the SFA rules regarding disputes between members apply?

So it would seem. 

[Billy Jean King]

If your team...
 
 
 
 
 
 
kept your original vote, you could have played out the season.
The news coming out if Dens Park and Easter Road is upsetting and completely unnecessary.
I hope all clubs survive this. But it looks pretty bleak for some, even after Ann Budge kindly found someone to donate to all clubs. 

Good to see the your pals from Paisley using your Philanthropuc wee attempted bribe to add to our squad, cheers.

[dundeeunited83]

And again x