League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[Tannadeechee]

2 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Maybe Ann Budge has got her hands on one of these babies.

 

Right guys, you have to vote for reconstruction, this is the first time you've voted for it and you want to vote YES.

If she has, would she not be better to use it on the Tynecastle faithful so they have no recollection of the squad or standard of play?

[LIVIFOREVER]

33 minutes ago, Tannadeechee said:

If she has, would she not be better to use it on the Tynecastle faithful so they have no recollection of the squad or standard of play?

Maybe she already has, would explain how none of them seem to remember how shite they've been all season and are convinced they'd have stayed up if they got to play their last 8 games.

[Romeo]

If a second vote was to take place to end season. I am.sure that all clubs, apart from hearts, would vote to end season and relegate hearts 

I would love for that to happen.

[Andy groundhopper]

Guess the only cast iron decision was to null and void, no winners or losers, season incomplete, done. Then you'd get the finances, the Scottish Cup & SJC, European places etc, easy really Champions have been crowned in the English non league and now you're not going up sorry. Chaotic times and the world F.A's are struggling.

[welshbairn]

12 hours ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

That literally does not matter. The arbitrator doesn't have to consider outside parties.

Slightly different but similar. You can take your employer to a tribunal to get your job back if you were wrongly dismissed. The panel doesn't have to take into account if your job has been filled by someone else. They can instruct your employer to take you back with your previous role.  It is up to the employer to sort out what to do with your replacement.

The reconstrcution votes are a moot point if the previous rule changes to stop the league and relegate hearts are found to be flawed and unfair.

I don't think any of this will happen. Just saying that going to arbitration hasn't removed any of the potential options in resolving this issue. And it certainly hasn't made Hearts case any liklier to succeed.

 

 

They had a QC on Sportsound yesterday who said something about a "balance of convenience" in company law. I think it would only come into consideration if the case was going to get drawn out and Hearts tried to stop the league starting in its present form on August 1st with an interdiction, and the panel could refuse to order it on the basis that the harm caused would be out of proportion to any potential remedy if they found Hearts to have been demoted illegally. But as you say, if the panel did order the SPFL to put Hearts back in the Premiership at the end of the proceedings, it would be the SPFL's problem of how to go about it. 

Edited July 5, 2020 by welshbairn

[Ric]

9 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Guess the only cast iron decision was to null and void, no winners or losers, season incomplete, done. Then you'd get the finances, the Scottish Cup & SJC, European places etc, easy really Champions have been crowned in the English non league and now you're not going up sorry. Chaotic times and the world F.A's are struggling.

I believe UEFA stated that if you null/void the league then it wouldn't accept entrants for their competition.

[Staggie52]

I think those who are suggesting that the arbitration panel has unlimited powers should look at the first part of the act. The first founding principle say “that the object of arbitration is to resolve disputes fairly, impartially and without unnecessary delay or expense”. That, in itself, restricts what they can do.

it would seem unfair to do things such as overturning the results of votes cast by the members of the SPFL. Would any fair resolution delay the start of the season? Would that be a necessary delay that is fair and doesn’t incur unnecessary expense? Despite what others seem to be saying their options are limited by the founding principles and I would argue that discounts overturning the clear will of the clubs (reconstruction and promotion/relegation) or delaying the start of the season (unnecessary delay if no reconstruction and unnecessary expense). 

As others have said, this looks like a fight over compensation with possibly a requirement on the SPFL to review policies and procedures to ensure that there is clarity on how any future disruption to the leagues would be approached.

[GordonD]

18 minutes ago, Ric said:

I believe UEFA stated that if you null/void the league then it wouldn't accept entrants for their competition.

Well, that seems obvious. If the season is void, who would be entered? Not Celtic, since they didn't win anything. Aberdeen, on alphabetical order?

[RandomGuy.]

12 minutes ago, GordonD said:

Well, that seems obvious. If the season is void, who would be entered? Not Celtic, since they didn't win anything. Aberdeen, on alphabetical order?

I'm sure UEFA wording was that qualifiers have to be selected "through sporting merit", if a season doesnt exist, then you likely just use the previous seasons entrants.

[Aim Here]

50 minutes ago, Andy groundhopper said:

Guess the only cast iron decision was to null and void, no winners or losers, season incomplete, done. Then you'd get the finances, the Scottish Cup & SJC, European places etc, easy really Champions have been crowned in the English non league and now you're not going up sorry. Chaotic times and the world F.A's are struggling.

The 'fairness' argument about ending the season early would also bounce back to haunt Hearts; if it's unfair to discard 8 games that weren't played, how much more unfair is it to discard the 30 games that were? Why is it fair that Celtic and Rangers end up with the same amount of prize money as Hearts after they had shown, through sporting merit and with mathematical certainty, that they were definitely going to end up higher placed than Heart of Midlothian?

Null and void also potentially ends up with a lawsuit, and one where aggrieved parties can quantify actual losses in financial terms, as opposed to just thinking of a number and doubling it.

[Tannadeechee]

22 minutes ago, GordonD said:

Well, that seems obvious. If the season is void, who would be entered? Not Celtic, since they didn't win anything. Aberdeen, on alphabetical order?

No one. If season.was null & void UEFA had said no entrants to UEFA competitions. There had to be a sporting finish, call early, PPG or a play off of sorts for UEFA comp entry. They would then reject or refuse nominations if that hadn't happened.

Then there was the limit on 16th (I think it was) place league and down to have entrants nominated by 3 August, which all brings us back to where we are now.

[Aubrey Maturin]

16 hours ago, Romeo said:

18 hours ago, Tynierose said:

The last time Hearts were in the championship under Neilson the title was won by 21 points.  That league included Rangers and Hibs.
A resurgent Falkirk, ffs.

^^^ scared of Falkirk imo

So would you be if you walked through the high street.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Romeo said:

10 hours ago, flood said:

If a second vote was to take place to end season. I am.sure that all clubs, apart from hearts, would vote to end season and relegate hearts 

I would love for that to happen.

My favourite result would be that Partick Thistle had been treated harshly beyond a threshold of reasonableness given the extraordinary circumstances, but not Hearts, and a recommendation of 12-12-10-10 so as not to disrupt the Premiership schedule.

[Romeo]

My favourite result would be that Partick Thistle had been treated harshly beyond a threshold of reasonableness given the extraordinary circumstances, but not Hearts, and a recommendation of 12-12-10-10 so as not to disrupt the Premiership schedule.

Yeah since they are doing the equivalent of going on a night out and having their mate buy all their drinks for them.

It would be an amusing outcome.

[gannonball]

30 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

My favourite result would be that Partick Thistle had been treated harshly beyond a threshold of reasonableness given the extraordinary circumstances, but not Hearts, and a recommendation of 12-12-10-10 so as not to disrupt the Premiership schedule.

This please.

[Green Day]

Leslie Deans statement on kickback...............

 

“My thoughts on the case itself now follow.

Hearts case is currently no stronger or no weaker than it was yesterday morning. Depending on what the recovery of documents divulges it could be about to strengthen. At this stage , It's hard to say. The potential benefit of the disclosures from these documents has been eloquently spelt out by others. The crux of the matter is convincing the arbitration tribunal that we have suffered unfair prejudice. I believe it is crystal clear that we have , but we need to convince the tribunal. Do this and we should succeed.
I am aware that some people would like to see me on the Arbitration tribunal. Whilst I would be flattered to be invited I would decline any such invitation. Given my loyalties it simply would not sit right with me.

Finally, The analysis and incisive comment from many posters about the case on Kickback has been first class, Far above the quality of comments from the vast majority of the Scottish media. The guys concerned are a credit to our club. I know their contributions and opinions are noted and valued at a high level.

To misquote Churchill, this is not the end but may be the beginning of the end. But can the arbitration panel conclude matters and issue its decision by August 1 ? And if not, will they order a delay to the start of the premier league ? And if their findings are appealed back to the Court of Session on a point of law, a delayed start to the league looks inevitable.

You have to hope that all hidden documents, emails etc are provided quickly and fully by the SPFL and that all those involved, Doncaster, Nelms etc are ordered to appear for QC led cross examination at the tribunal. It is just unfortunate that the legitimate public interest will not be served by it all taking place behind closed doors.

And what is all this going to cost? All because SPFL could not devise a " no harm" strategy at the outset.

Les."

[MacArab]

6 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Leslie Deans statement on kickback...............

 

“My thoughts on the case itself now follow.

Hearts case is currently no stronger or no weaker than it was yesterday morning. Depending on what the recovery of documents divulges it could be about to strengthen. At this stage , It's hard to say. The potential benefit of the disclosures from these documents has been eloquently spelt out by others. The crux of the matter is convincing the arbitration tribunal that we have suffered unfair prejudice. I believe it is crystal clear that we have , but we need to convince the tribunal. Do this and we should succeed.
I am aware that some people would like to see me on the Arbitration tribunal. Whilst I would be flattered to be invited I would decline any such invitation. Given my loyalties it simply would not sit right with me.

Finally, The analysis and incisive comment from many posters about the case on Kickback has been first class, Far above the quality of comments from the vast majority of the Scottish media. The guys concerned are a credit to our club. I know their contributions and opinions are noted and valued at a high level.

To misquote Churchill, this is not the end but may be the beginning of the end. But can the arbitration panel conclude matters and issue its decision by August 1 ? And if not, will they order a delay to the start of the premier league ? And if their findings are appealed back to the Court of Session on a point of law, a delayed start to the league looks inevitable.

You have to hope that all hidden documents, emails etc are provided quickly and fully by the SPFL and that all those involved, Doncaster, Nelms etc are ordered to appear for QC led cross examination at the tribunal. It is just unfortunate that the legitimate public interest will not be served by it all taking place behind closed doors.

And what is all this going to cost? All because SPFL could not devise a " no harm" strategy at the outset.

Les."

What a fucking bellend.

That’s about as eloquently as I can put it.

[capt_oats]

10 minutes ago, Green Day said:

Leslie Deans statement on kickback...............

 

“My thoughts on the case itself now follow.

Hearts case is currently no stronger or no weaker than it was yesterday morning. Depending on what the recovery of documents divulges it could be about to strengthen. At this stage , It's hard to say. The potential benefit of the disclosures from these documents has been eloquently spelt out by others. The crux of the matter is convincing the arbitration tribunal that we have suffered unfair prejudice. I believe it is crystal clear that we have , but we need to convince the tribunal. Do this and we should succeed.
I am aware that some people would like to see me on the Arbitration tribunal. Whilst I would be flattered to be invited I would decline any such invitation. Given my loyalties it simply would not sit right with me.

Finally, The analysis and incisive comment from many posters about the case on Kickback has been first class, Far above the quality of comments from the vast majority of the Scottish media. The guys concerned are a credit to our club. I know their contributions and opinions are noted and valued at a high level.

To misquote Churchill, this is not the end but may be the beginning of the end. But can the arbitration panel conclude matters and issue its decision by August 1 ? And if not, will they order a delay to the start of the premier league ? And if their findings are appealed back to the Court of Session on a point of law, a delayed start to the league looks inevitable.

You have to hope that all hidden documents, emails etc are provided quickly and fully by the SPFL and that all those involved, Doncaster, Nelms etc are ordered to appear for QC led cross examination at the tribunal. It is just unfortunate that the legitimate public interest will not be served by it all taking place behind closed doors.

And what is all this going to cost? All because SPFL could not devise a " no harm" strategy at the outset.

Les."

[jaybeee]

16 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Can they only impose dismissal or financial recompense then? Seems a bit limited. Presumably they could do the same as the French and I think the Belgian courts and send it back to the SPFL with a recommendation that would have to be put to the members or the board.

Arbitration panels do NOT have the power to force a private members club (which footy is) to alter their rules, as an example if you belonged to a male only golf club, certain individuals of the female persuasion might disagree and attempt to sue you or club for discrimination and whilst in today's society they might be considered justified, the courts could do squat about it, as far as FORCING you to change your rules.

[IveSeenTheLight]

16 hours ago, Wilbur said:

Well, I know this is probably a long shot,  but imagine the planet gets hit with a pandemic or something,  and the entire fixture list couldn't be completed. I don't suppose there's a precedent for a situation like this, but .......

The Season should be put on hold until its completed then.