Dons_1988 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 On 12/07/2020 at 20:26, pandarilla said: Christ, that's a lot of bigots. I'm guessing that as you get older, you'll realise that life doesn't quite work like that. Lots of bad people do great things, and lots of great people do bad things. Life and people are complicated, and rarely is stuff black and white. I've only read the last couple of pages of this thread but very much this. I have a Facebook account I never use, no Twitter or any other social media other than P&B as in general the internet has no interest in the nuance and complexities of people. I really can't be arsed with the hysteria that comes with it. I'm sure she has her reasons but I don't know why JK Rowling has got involved with the Trans stuff. It's an absolute minefield and one of the most incendiary internet topics out there. I don't believe she's a 'bigot' because she distinguishes women and trans women, I just question why you would feel the need to make a song and dance about it on the internet. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Just now, Dons_1988 said: I'm sure she has her reasons but I don't know why JK Rowling has got involved with the Trans stuff. It's an absolute minefield and one of the most incendiary internet topics out there. I don't believe she's a 'bigot' because she distinguishes women and trans women, I just question why you would feel the need to make a song and dance about it on the internet. Considering how much "celebrities" spend on PR and publicists for the tiniest things, I'm amazed stuff like this still appears. The perceived need for a publicist vs level of fame/wealth graph is definitely a normal bell curve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherchance Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I've only read the last couple of pages of this thread but very much this. I have a Facebook account I never use, no Twitter or any other social media other than P&B as in general the internet has no interest in the nuance and complexities of people. I really can't be arsed with the hysteria that comes with it. I'm sure she has her reasons but I don't know why JK Rowling has got involved with the Trans stuff. It's an absolute minefield and one of the most incendiary internet topics out there. I don't believe she's a 'bigot' because she distinguishes women and trans women, I just question why you would feel the need to make a song and dance about it on the internet. Similar mindset to me - the way things are at the moment many of us “relying” on social media and non face to face contact more than ever, and I’m really not a fan at all, for the reasons you state.Rose tinted glasses maybe, but everything I’ve always thought about listening to people, disagreeing/agreeing then getting on with your lives in harmony seems to be going down the toilet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I've only read the last couple of pages of this thread but very much this. I have a Facebook account I never use, no Twitter or any other social media other than P&B as in general the internet has no interest in the nuance and complexities of people. I really can't be arsed with the hysteria that comes with it. I'm sure she has her reasons but I don't know why JK Rowling has got involved with the Trans stuff. It's an absolute minefield and one of the most incendiary internet topics out there. I don't believe she's a 'bigot' because she distinguishes women and trans women, I just question why you would feel the need to make a song and dance about it on the internet. Claiming that rowling isn't a bigot is pretty incendiary on here. Similar mindset to me - the way things are at the moment many of us “relying” on social media and non face to face contact more than ever, and I’m really not a fan at all, for the reasons you state.Rose tinted glasses maybe, but everything I’ve always thought about listening to people, disagreeing/agreeing then getting on with your lives in harmony seems to be going down the toilet.It does happen mate, but in real life.Don't confuse social media with real life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 minute ago, pandarilla said: Claiming that rowling isn't a bigot is pretty incendiary on here. She could well be. I just don't presume to know. From my limited knowledge of what she's tweeted it's not a conclusion I'd jump to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: I've only read the last couple of pages of this thread but very much this. I have a Facebook account I never use, no Twitter or any other social media other than P&B as in general the internet has no interest in the nuance and complexities of people. I really can't be arsed with the hysteria that comes with it. I'm sure she has her reasons but I don't know why JK Rowling has got involved with the Trans stuff. It's an absolute minefield and one of the most incendiary internet topics out there. I don't believe she's a 'bigot' because she distinguishes women and trans women, I just question why you would feel the need to make a song and dance about it on the internet. I agree with this. It would equally apply to most "issues". (I also have a Facebook account which I've never used. P&B is my only social media. I can't understand how people get any work done judging by the amount of Twitter accounts there are and the number of posts that appear to be made. I haven't got that high an opinion of myself that I think anyone would be remotely interested in following me on Twitter.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: "self-expelling" A bit like Hearts really. (With our encouragement.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: "self-expelling" A bit like Hearts really. (With our encouragement.) Sounds a bit like he shat himself, maybe he did! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherchance Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 You don’t think comparing gay conversion therapy with hormone therapy is bigoted? “Many health professionals are concerned that young people struggling with their mental health are being shunted towards hormones and surgery when this may not be in their best interests. Many, myself included, believe we are watching a new kind of conversion therapy for young gay people, who are being set on a lifelong path of medicalisation that may result in the loss of their fertility and/or full sexual function.”The idea that moving potentially confused young people down the hormone and surgery route too quickly may not be the best thing in every case isn’t, in my opinion, bigoted. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 17 minutes ago, ali_91 said: You don’t think comparing gay conversion therapy with hormone therapy is bigoted? Not necessarily, no. We're talking about a very complex matter which I'm not going to be dipping my toes into whatsoever, I haven't a shred of expertise on the matter. The quote that @anotherchance mentioned above doesn't immediately suggest bigotry to me though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherchance Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Neither does JK Rowling, but she’s happy to quote unnamed health professionals to continue her crusade against trans people. The notion that young people are being shoved towards hormones and medication because their parents don’t want them to be gay is absolutely absurd and offensive, and completely dismisses their genuine reasons for transitioning. If someone told a gay child they’ll grow out of it, would you consider that bigoted? I’m genuinely astonished someone could read that quote, even in isolation, and not consider that bigoted. I read it that moving a potentially confused and vulnerable young person towards life changing hormones and surgery might not always be the best thing for them. Sometimes it might be, other times it might not be.I always wonder what a young person struggling to work these issues out might make of the absolute shitfest of a debate that constantly runs through Twitter like wildfire. It never seems to be about publicising and championing support services for these people, it’s always about people’s shit being completely lost and screaming at each other in the most tribal terms possible. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, ali_91 said: Neither does JK Rowling, but she’s happy to quote unnamed health professionals to continue her crusade against trans people. The notion that young people are being shoved towards hormones and medication because their parents don’t want them to be gay is absolutely absurd and offensive, and completely dismisses their genuine reasons for transitioning. If someone told a gay child they’ll grow out of it, would you consider that bigoted? I’m genuinely astonished someone could read that quote, even in isolation, and not consider that bigoted. As I alluded to earlier, I would question why she feels the need to wade in to a Twitter debate about this, but I don't think in isolation expressing concern about hormone treatments from a young age is bigoted. I don't really want to end up bickering with you again. We approach most of these topics differently, that is fine. My position is not one of defending her, more that I don't know enough about her or her views from her Twitter timeline to make any strong conclusion on her, nor would I really want to. I get that on the internet people take a limited scope of information and draw conclusions on people but it's a dangerous game and genuinely don't understand the desire to do so. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, ali_91 said: Neither does JK Rowling, but she’s happy to quote unnamed health professionals to continue her crusade against trans people. The notion that young people are being shoved towards hormones and medication because their parents don’t want them to be gay is absolutely absurd and offensive, and completely dismisses their genuine reasons for transitioning. If someone told a gay child they’ll grow out of it, would you consider that bigoted? I’m genuinely astonished someone could read that quote, even in isolation, and not consider that bigoted. Michelle Cretalla , may or may not be a fruit loop, but it's probably her. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I always wonder what a young person struggling to work these issues out might make of the absolute shitfest of a debate that constantly runs through Twitter like wildfire. It never seems to be about publicising and championing support services for these people, it’s always about people’s shit being completely lost and screaming at each other in the most tribal terms possible.That last paragraph is not true although I understand how you can make that judgment if your exposure to the debate is filtered through the poisonous (often broadsheet led) media lens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, ali_91 said: Neither does JK Rowling, but she’s happy to quote unnamed health professionals to continue her crusade against trans people. The notion that young people are being shoved towards hormones and medication because their parents don’t want them to be gay is absolutely absurd and offensive, and completely dismisses their genuine reasons for transitioning. If someone told a gay child they’ll grow out of it, would you consider that bigoted? I’m genuinely astonished someone could read that quote, even in isolation, and not consider that bigoted. I don't see how you get that meaning from that quote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherchance Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 That last paragraph is not true although I understand how you can make that judgment if your exposure to the debate is filtered through the poisonous (often broadsheet led) media lens. It’s from taking one look on social media, which is probably how someone with these sorts of issues might start to look for help and support.Granted it’s from the perspective of political type accounts I follow, so may be a different story if approached from another angle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said: Michelle Cretalla , may or may not be a fruit loop, but it's probably her. Michelle Cretella absolutely is a fruit loop, and a bigot. This is the group she’s ‘executive director’ of: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/american-college-pediatricians If JK Rowling has decided to side with these fuckers, them I’m more than comfortable calling her a bigot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, ali_91 said: ‘Many, myself included, believe we are watching a new kind of conversion therapy for young gay people.’ What do you think this means? It looks like she's making a point about trying to get young people to conform to a path that is laid out for them by other people. Probably do gooding liberal social workers or something. Not saying it's a good point or anything, just can't see where there's room to read in parents stopping their kids being gay. For that interpretation to be right would she not have to believe that re-assignment actually did change a persons gender? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Michelle Cretella absolutely is a fruit loop, and a bigot. This is the group she’s ‘executive director’ of: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/american-college-pediatricians If JK Rowling has decided to side with these fuckers, them I’m more than comfortable calling her a bigot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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