dorlomin Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 9 hours ago, NotThePars said: It's clearly completely exhausting having to debate your existence on a daily basis with people that aren't engaging in good faith*. It was exhausting for black people Black people had to debate their existence on social media did they. Oh and I love that only people who agree with you debate in good faith. Again you write drivel, convinced you are imparting the wisdom of the ages. You are grandstanding and strutting around with zero interest in accuracy or in reflecting on what you are saying. You are just jamming together buzz issues in the knowledge that virtually no one will read it, just skim and react. Quote And it is intentionally blown up beyond all due significance because the people that are against it know that if they can't win the argument then they just exhaust everyone that makes the mistake of taking an interest You are just making this up. Lying you might say. The point here is to invent a malevolent motivation for people who disagree with you then smash down the strawman. People hold very different and nuanced views on a broad array of issues, they debate them because they believe their morals to be worrth defending. Not simply to inconvenience you by forcing you to read more than two sentences. Quote so that it becomes poisonous to even touch with a bargepole. Any government with a conscience here would just ram through the changes before it becomes a culture war "Everything would be easy if the world just legislated what I want". Sums up the problem with the white knights like you in this whole discussion. Morals are so easy because you know everything, everyone who disagrees is in bad faith. And any discussion of more than two sentences is exhausting for you. Quote and then those that desperately need the support provided by these legislations can still have them while your bigots spend all day getting mad about it online. The situation as it stands right now in Britain just pisses off everyone with no upside. Legislation needs debate. Its never easy, it never works the way people imagine. It is a very blunt tool. Quote *By this I don't mean everyone that maybe voices a concern as I do understand how someone new to the discussion may have a warped understanding as it's a discussion rife with misinformation. I mean your thought leaders in the debate like Julie Bindel, Sarah Ditum, Graham Linehan etc etc. Oh wait, it just occurred to the vapid narcissist that not everyone who disagrees with it is in "bad faith", the others are warped by Julie Bindel. "Cancel culture" is vapid narcissists who think they have the answer to everything, that is just agree with them, that everything that exhausts you (i.e. a discussion taking more than two sentences), is bad faith or warped and everything in the world you disagree with should be banned by legislation. This is pretty much what the letter was complaining at, the removal of nuance, the absolute certainty of moral virtue, the idea that debate is wrong. I could not give to f*cks about Rowling and her tweets. Its the broad move in a small but vocal part of society to stop thinking and just agree with the latest online trend. Its the obvious lack of depth and analysis. Its the total lack of empathy for why people have differing opinions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Self awareness isn't your strong point. Someone complains so instead of trying to better understand why, you and your buddies pile on and make it a whole lot worse. At least you have admitted to bullying. I'd respectfully suggest you do a little Googling on the subject, it might open your eyes.Ali 91 is aggressive and opinionated and also quick to pile on anyone he disagrees with usually while swearing and being generally toxic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, dorlomin said: You are just making this up. Lying you might say. The point here is to invent a malevolent motivation for people who disagree with you then smash down the strawman. 1 hour ago, dorlomin said: "Cancel culture" is vapid narcissists who think they have the answer to everything, that is just agree with them, that everything that exhausts you (i.e. a discussion taking more than two sentences), is bad faith or warped and everything in the world you disagree with should be banned by legislation. Certainly a bold move to put these two paragraphs in the same post. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said: If anything represents 'cancel culture', it's the idea put forward a couple of pages ago that 'centrist' views like yours, i.e. I don't know her, her tweets don't scream bigotry to me, therefore I won't brand her as one, are far more dangerous than just calling out suspected bigots as bigots. HA. I was about to pile on and criticise you, but I re-read this and believe you are 100% spot on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Dunning1874 said: As for the repeated Rowling discussion, for anyone interested in learning more about the underlying issues but understandably has no interest in diving into a myriad of twitter threads and trying to find insightful comments among the thousands of replies, here's a charity's response to one of her blogs which takes quotes and shows in a measured way what the problem is with each of them: https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/dear-jk-rowling/ Haven't Mermaids been involved in a few controversial cases that went to court? I've read bits and pieces on this subject when bored and just following things that pop up on twitter, and I'm sure I recall reading they were taken to court by a father who wanted custody of his young son because the mother was being advised by Mermaids that the son should be living as a daughter? Google suggests they(Mermaids) argue that the mother received the court order to stay away from Mermaids rather than Mermaids being told not to contact her. The father was given custody and the son now appears to be living happily as a boy. On that topic, I'm very much in the "live and let live" camp, but I do feel that life altering treatment like that needs to come with incredible levels of protection. I appreciate that some children will know from an early age that it is correct for them, but many will also just be confused about life in general and where they fit in, something that could lead them down a life altering path that is potentially very dangerous for them. It's absolutely right that processes are in place to ensure as few children as possible make what for them is the wrong decision, though sadly that also means that some will take longer to get the treatment that is right. There isn't really a way to keep everyone happy on this topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ross. said: Haven't Mermaids been involved in a few controversial cases that went to court? I've read bits and pieces on this subject when bored and just following things that pop up on twitter, and I'm sure I recall reading they were taken to court by a father who wanted custody of his young son because the mother was being advised by Mermaids that the son should be living as a daughter? Google suggests they(Mermaids) argue that the mother received the court order to stay away from Mermaids rather than Mermaids being told not to contact her. The father was given custody and the son now appears to be living happily as a boy. On that topic, I'm very much in the "live and let live" camp, but I do feel that life altering treatment like that needs to come with incredible levels of protection. I appreciate that some children will know from an early age that it is correct for them, but many will also just be confused about life in general and where they fit in, something that could lead them down a life altering path that is potentially very dangerous for them. It's absolutely right that processes are in place to ensure as few children as possible make what for them is the wrong decision, though sadly that also means that some will take longer to get the treatment that is right. There isn't really a way to keep everyone happy on this topic. Maybe because of character limits twitter is an inappropriate platform for discussing anything that isn't very basic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, coprolite said: Maybe because of character limits twitter is an inappropriate platform for discussing anything that isn't very basic. Yeah, I'm not sure when it was started that it was ever intended to end up exactly as it has. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 12 minutes ago, ali_91 said: Yes, because people quite happily not challenging bigoted views has never caused any issues before. You are absolutely determined to label her a bigot, that is your right. Enjoy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 18 hours ago, ali_91 said: My point is more that anyone who thinks it is worth saying that people might not ACTUALLY be gay (or trans) in this case almost certainly are saying so because they hope said person isn’t gay. Yeah, that's what I'm reading here too. Someone said earlier that people who are transitioning could just be confused - who the f**k are they to determine who is confused and what therapy someone should put themselves through? It comes across as assumption based on what they believe to be right. A kind of "this many people can't be wrong, they must be confused" type thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 As for the repeated Rowling discussion, for anyone interested in learning more about the underlying issues but understandably has no interest in diving into a myriad of twitter threads and trying to find insightful comments among the thousands of replies, here's a charity's response to one of her blogs which takes quotes and shows in a measured way what the problem is with each of them: https://mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/dear-jk-rowling/Interesting article.As much as i agree with a lot of the points made, they are quite flimsy themselves in terms of arguments and evidence. On two occasions they use 'looking at social media posts it is clear that...' as an argument (on one of the occasions they're quoting someone else who did a survey of social media views on the US). This is very weak evidence, as social media is a terrible reflection of public opinion. They also very much oppose the abuse given to rowling, and certainly don't encourage anyone to pile on.Earlier in this thread folk were dismissing pile-ons as 'just people saying not nice things to folk with a platform'.The abuse that people suffer online (especially women) is not acceptable, and shouldn't be defended or justified. Interesting also to note the controversial history of mermaids, as pointed out be Ross.From what i gather though, rowling was wrong with a few of her claims - but i don't think that's a slam dunk which justifies dismissing her concerns altogether.I think there's a legitimate point about the aggressive nature of trans activism, and the effect that it can have on young people. I want their rights to be protected, but i also want the doctors and scientists to be able to openly discuss the dangers of medical options without fear of being 'cancelled'.I don't know where i stand on the so-called terfs. Germaine greer and co have been a huge force for good in the world. They might be completely wrong here with their trans views, but shutting them down just seems wrong to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 34 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Yeah, that's what I'm reading here too. Someone said earlier that people who are transitioning could just be confused - who the f**k are they to determine who is confused and what therapy someone should put themselves through? It comes across as assumption based on what they believe to be right. A kind of "this many people can't be wrong, they must be confused" type thing. I largely agree with this, self determination absolutely has to play a part, but when it comes to children then there have to be safeguards in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, Ross. said: I largely agree with this, self determination absolutely has to play a part, but when it comes to children then there have to be safeguards in place. Yeah, thats fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, ali_91 said: Limmy is cancelled. Check out Daft Limmy's new single 'Get cancelled' if you can, it's the sound of the summer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Cancel culture is when you can’t speak wherever you like 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Cancel culture is when people are rude to me, a rude journalist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Wonder if @keithgy will rename his banhammer to the cancelhammer? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 49 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Cancel culture is when you can’t speak wherever you like Until that David Starkey thing the other week I had no idea who Darren Grimes was. I still don't know how he is, and he looks like an AI-generated version of Ben Shapiro. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Until that David Starkey thing the other week I had no idea who Darren Grimes was. I still don't know how he is, and he looks like an AI-generated version of Ben Shapiro. Think these people are bred in a lab to be smooth brained contrarian p***ks on the tele 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 minute ago, NotThePars said: Think these people are bred in a lab to be smooth brained contrarian p***ks on the tele And that lab is called "Eton". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Grimes is the pits. Part of the clown wing of Twitter we'll be force fed for years to come along with Hewertson and Harwood. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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